Sorry Mike, my experience at quite a few sites is that the management of
many such facilities would not recognise a greenie point if it bit them!
As an addendum to my previous post mentioning the good guys I should have
included the Mallacoota folk. Not only do they allow birding access
they've even built a special gate to permit walk-in access, specifically
aimed at birders, and have a hide under construction!
Martin Butterfield
http://franmart.blogspot.com.au/
On 10 August 2018 at 12:59, mike.honeyman <>
wrote:
> And general health and safety risks and liabilities around open water,
> human health risks (wastewater), drinking water contamination risks (dams),
> unintentional interference with operations and so on and so on....
>
> Speaking from personal experience most water utilities would be happy to
> take the 'greenie points' of having facilities as an environmental and
> community benefit, but please try and have some sympathy with the
> difficulties often presented to acheiving this which is after all a 'nice
> to have', not a core function.
>
>
>
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Denise Goodfellow <>
> Date: 10/8/18 12:41 pm (GMT+10:00)
> To: Martin Butterfield <>
> Cc: Graeme Stevens <>, birding-aus <
> >, Michael Honeyman <
> >
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Winton, QLD
>
> I know. According to a senior public servant one reason why access to
> facilities up here such as sewage ponds and Darwin River Dam is now so
> difficult is crocodiles. Another is a fear of terrorism.
>
>
> Denise
>
>
> On 10 Aug 2018, at 9:36 am, Martin Butterfield <>
> wrote:
>
> Its not just in the US. Some councils in NSW (I'm thinking of Lake
> Cargelligo as the best example) who promote their used-water facilities as
> birding sites and get a lot of people staying in their caravan sites and
> spending $$ in the towns. Others Councils, including the equivalent mob
> responsible for the ACT, seem blinkered in their consideration of more than
> one use for these sites
>
> Martin Butterfield
> http://franmart.blogspot.com.au/
>
> On 10 August 2018 at 07:28, Denise Goodfellow <>
> wrote:
>
>> Graeme, couldn’t agree more. But such attitudes towards birders are not
>> surprising. A couple of decades ago I put it to councils around the NT
>> that birders are a market they should target. In North America birding has
>> been the saviour of the economy of some small towns. There is still little
>> interest as I found when I put it to both the mayors of my shire and
>> Tennant Creek.
>>
>> Here, by the way, I’m not just talking listers. Most birders have a wide
>> range of interests, and many are travelling with a spouse as well.
>>
>> Denise
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10 Aug 2018, at 6:31 am, Graeme Stevens <> wrote:
>>
>> Also my line Denise:
>>
>> Very polite advice on the power of this medium to spread the word and the
>> risk of a "Birding and grey nomad" bypass as they give Winton a "why
>> bother" just at the time when the severe drought needs visitors to support
>> local businesses.
>>
>> Perhaps they have so many visitors stocking up before chasing Night
>> Parrots that the don't really care?
>>
>> Graeme S
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Denise Goodfellow <>
>> *Sent:* Friday, 10 August 2018 6:23 AM
>> *To:* Martin Butterfield
>> *Cc:* Graeme Stevens; birding-aus; Michael Honeyman
>> *Subject:* Re: [Birding-Aus] Winton, QLD
>>
>> I’m an ex-alderman (Darwin City Council) and know that this is the case
>> for many issues. Which is why I took the tourism angle.
>>
>> Denise
>>
>> On 10 Aug 2018, at 5:28 am, Martin Butterfield <>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Welcome to the world of Local Government! What would get the Council's
>> attention would be complaints from residents - preferably ones who pay a
>> lot of rates - of the area. Outsiders jumping up and down can be safely
>> ignored.
>>
>> Martin Butterfield
>> http://franmart.blogspot.com.au/
>> <https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ffranmart.blogspot.com.au%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9eb2a8f999194d797a5d08d5fe360a05%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636694430408168158&sdata=tjpbJLR8JqogHgsD4iNIei5ee7%2BpOv6FURSRW6FAA6A%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>> On 9 August 2018 at 21:52, Graeme Stevens <> wrote:
>>
>> And no response to email.
>>
>> Graeme Stevens
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Birding-Aus <> on behalf of Greg
>> and Val Clancy <>
>> Sent: Thursday, 9 August 2018 8:10 PM
>> To: Michael Honeyman; Peter Shute
>> Cc:
>> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Winton, QLD
>>
>> I agree that we shouldn’t 'shoot from the hip' but I am still awaiting a
>> response from the Director of Works who promised to call me back days ago.
>> I have followed up but to no avail. Not a good look.
>>
>> Greg Clancy
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Michael Honeyman
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 8, 2018 10:27 PM
>> To: Peter Shute
>> Cc:
>> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Winton, QLD
>>
>> Very much depends on the site Peter!
>>
>> And to an extent also depends on who you ask. I’ve worked on jobs where
>> previous advice given was along the lines of ‘fill it all in and build a
>> big
>> automated plant’ and been able to recommend minor changes that kept the
>> lagoons in situ with minor modifications.
>>
>> That said vegetation to any significant degree usually risks the integrity
>> of the lining of the pond, and whether 500 rhizomes or 250 rhizomes are
>> starting to penetrate the liner is academic - they all have to come out to
>> protect the liner.
>>
>> Another factor is that ponds (usually over many years) accumulate sludge
>> as
>> part of the way they operate and this needs to be periodically dug out one
>> way or another. If the reeds are growing in the sludge then again, they
>> have
>> to come out.
>>
>> This is all speculation on my part of course, just trying to give some
>> context as someone experienced in the design and operation of treatment
>> lagoons before the birding community shoots from the hip at too many
>> council
>> employees. In the unique situation of being both qualified as an engineer
>> and qualified as an ornithologist!
>>
>> mjh
>>
>> On 8 Aug 2018, at 20:52, Peter Shute <> wrote:
>>
>> Are compromises feasible, Mike? Eg just remove half the reeds?
>>
>> Peter Shute
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On 8 Aug 2018, at 6:47 am, mike.honeyman <>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi allThere is mention of the 'old' treatment ponds, was this a current
>> active treatment plant?
>> Excessive vegetation in treatment lagoons is not condusive to their
>> primary purpose - treating sewage - so if they were active lagoons there
>> may have been a need to have removed the veg to ensure it was working
>> effectively.I'm not personally familiar with this site, but have
>> consulted on other sites where the lagoons had reeds encroaching and the
>> reeds have generally had to go, birds or not.
>> mjh
>> null
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