Yeah, I'm guessing the experience with smaller authorities / councils and at
the coal face (treatment plant gate) is different to the bigger authorities and
higher up the food chain, this being the folks I deal with more often.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: Martin Butterfield
<> Date: 10/8/18 1:33 pm (GMT+10:00) To: "mike.honeyman"
<> Cc: Denise Goodfellow <>,
Graeme Stevens <>, birding-aus
<>, Michael Honeyman <>
Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Winton, QLD
Sorry Mike, my experience at quite a few sites is that the management of many
such facilities would not recognise a greenie point if it bit them!
As an addendum to my previous post mentioning the good guys I should have
included the Mallacoota folk. Not only do they allow birding access they've
even built a special gate to permit walk-in access, specifically aimed at
birders, and have a hide under construction!
Martin Butterfieldhttp://franmart.blogspot.com.au/
On 10 August 2018 at 12:59, mike.honeyman <> wrote:
And general health and safety risks and liabilities around open water, human
health risks (wastewater), drinking water contamination risks (dams),
unintentional interference with operations and so on and so on....
Speaking from personal experience most water utilities would be happy to take
the 'greenie points' of having facilities as an environmental and community
benefit, but please try and have some sympathy with the difficulties often
presented to acheiving this which is after all a 'nice to have', not a core
function.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: Denise Goodfellow
<> Date: 10/8/18 12:41 pm (GMT+10:00) To: Martin
Butterfield <> Cc: Graeme Stevens <>,
birding-aus <>, Michael Honeyman
<> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Winton, QLD
I know. According to a senior public servant one reason why access to
facilities up here such as sewage ponds and Darwin River Dam is now so
difficult is crocodiles. Another is a fear of terrorism.
Denise
On 10 Aug 2018, at 9:36 am, Martin Butterfield <> wrote:
Its not just in the US. Some councils in NSW (I'm thinking of Lake Cargelligo
as the best example) who promote their used-water facilities as birding sites
and get a lot of people staying in their caravan sites and spending $$ in the
towns. Others Councils, including the equivalent mob responsible for the ACT,
seem blinkered in their consideration of more than one use for these sites
Martin Butterfieldhttp://franmart.blogspot.com.au/
On 10 August 2018 at 07:28, Denise Goodfellow <> wrote:
Graeme, couldn’t agree more. But such attitudes towards birders are not
surprising. A couple of decades ago I put it to councils around the NT that
birders are a market they should target. In North America birding has been the
saviour of the economy of some small towns. There is still little interest as
I found when I put it to both the mayors of my shire and Tennant Creek.
Here, by the way, I’m not just talking listers. Most birders have a wide range
of interests, and many are travelling with a spouse as well.
Denise
On 10 Aug 2018, at 6:31 am, Graeme Stevens <> wrote:
Also my line Denise:
Very polite advice on the power of this medium to spread the word and the risk
of a "Birding and grey nomad" bypass as they give Winton a "why bother" just at
the time when the severe drought needs visitors to support local businesses.
Perhaps they have so many visitors stocking up before chasing Night Parrots
that the don't really care?
Graeme S
From: Denise Goodfellow <>
Sent: Friday, 10 August 2018 6:23 AM
To: Martin Butterfield
Cc: Graeme Stevens; birding-aus; Michael Honeyman
Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Winton, QLD I’m an ex-alderman (Darwin City Council)
and know that this is the case for many issues. Which is why I took the
tourism angle.
Denise
On 10 Aug 2018, at 5:28 am, Martin Butterfield <> wrote:
Welcome to the world of Local Government! What would get the Council's
attention would be complaints from residents - preferably ones who pay a
lot of rates - of the area. Outsiders jumping up and down can be safely
ignored.
Martin Butterfield
http://franmart.blogspot.com.au/
On 9 August 2018 at 21:52, Graeme Stevens <> wrote:
And no response to email.
Graeme Stevens
________________________________
From: Birding-Aus <> on behalf of Greg
and Val Clancy <>
Sent: Thursday, 9 August 2018 8:10 PM
To: Michael Honeyman; Peter Shute
Cc:
Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Winton, QLD
I agree that we shouldn’t 'shoot from the hip' but I am still awaiting a
response from the Director of Works who promised to call me back days ago.
I have followed up but to no avail. Not a good look.
Greg Clancy
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Honeyman
Sent: Wednesday, August 8, 2018 10:27 PM
To: Peter Shute
Cc:
Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Winton, QLD
Very much depends on the site Peter!
And to an extent also depends on who you ask. I’ve worked on jobs where
previous advice given was along the lines of ‘fill it all in and build a
big
automated plant’ and been able to recommend minor changes that kept the
lagoons in situ with minor modifications.
That said vegetation to any significant degree usually risks the integrity
of the lining of the pond, and whether 500 rhizomes or 250 rhizomes are
starting to penetrate the liner is academic - they all have to come out to
protect the liner.
Another factor is that ponds (usually over many years) accumulate sludge as
part of the way they operate and this needs to be periodically dug out one
way or another. If the reeds are growing in the sludge then again, they
have
to come out.
This is all speculation on my part of course, just trying to give some
context as someone experienced in the design and operation of treatment
lagoons before the birding community shoots from the hip at too many
council
employees. In the unique situation of being both qualified as an engineer
and qualified as an ornithologist!
mjh
On 8 Aug 2018, at 20:52, Peter Shute <> wrote:
Are compromises feasible, Mike? Eg just remove half the reeds?
Peter Shute
Sent from my iPad
On 8 Aug 2018, at 6:47 am, mike.honeyman <>
wrote:
Hi allThere is mention of the 'old' treatment ponds, was this a current
active treatment plant?
Excessive vegetation in treatment lagoons is not condusive to their
primary purpose - treating sewage - so if they were active lagoons there
may have been a need to have removed the veg to ensure it was working
effectively.I'm not personally familiar with this site, but have
consulted on other sites where the lagoons had reeds encroaching and the
reeds have generally had to go, birds or not.
mjh
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