If the bullrushes have been removed here's a good use
<https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/could-m-ori-kete-part-solution-our-plastic-pollution-problem>
for them. I'm not sure if there are any Maori in Winton but surely there
is a traditional local equivalent to the kete.
Martin Butterfield
http://franmart.blogspot.com.au/
On 10 August 2018 at 14:02, mike.honeyman <>
wrote:
> Yeah, I'm guessing the experience with smaller authorities / councils and
> at the coal face (treatment plant gate) is different to the bigger
> authorities and higher up the food chain, this being the folks I deal with
> more often.
>
>
>
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Martin Butterfield <>
> Date: 10/8/18 1:33 pm (GMT+10:00)
> To: "mike.honeyman" <>
> Cc: Denise Goodfellow <>, Graeme Stevens <
> >, birding-aus <>, Michael
> Honeyman <>
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Winton, QLD
>
> Sorry Mike, my experience at quite a few sites is that the management of
> many such facilities would not recognise a greenie point if it bit them!
>
> As an addendum to my previous post mentioning the good guys I should have
> included the Mallacoota folk. Not only do they allow birding access
> they've even built a special gate to permit walk-in access, specifically
> aimed at birders, and have a hide under construction!
>
> Martin Butterfield
> http://franmart.blogspot.com.au/
>
> On 10 August 2018 at 12:59, mike.honeyman <>
> wrote:
>
>> And general health and safety risks and liabilities around open water,
>> human health risks (wastewater), drinking water contamination risks (dams),
>> unintentional interference with operations and so on and so on....
>>
>> Speaking from personal experience most water utilities would be happy to
>> take the 'greenie points' of having facilities as an environmental and
>> community benefit, but please try and have some sympathy with the
>> difficulties often presented to acheiving this which is after all a 'nice
>> to have', not a core function.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: Denise Goodfellow <>
>> Date: 10/8/18 12:41 pm (GMT+10:00)
>> To: Martin Butterfield <>
>> Cc: Graeme Stevens <>, birding-aus <
>> >, Michael Honeyman <
>> >
>> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Winton, QLD
>>
>> I know. According to a senior public servant one reason why access to
>> facilities up here such as sewage ponds and Darwin River Dam is now so
>> difficult is crocodiles. Another is a fear of terrorism.
>>
>>
>> Denise
>>
>>
>> On 10 Aug 2018, at 9:36 am, Martin Butterfield <>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Its not just in the US. Some councils in NSW (I'm thinking of Lake
>> Cargelligo as the best example) who promote their used-water facilities as
>> birding sites and get a lot of people staying in their caravan sites and
>> spending $$ in the towns. Others Councils, including the equivalent mob
>> responsible for the ACT, seem blinkered in their consideration of more than
>> one use for these sites
>>
>> Martin Butterfield
>> http://franmart.blogspot.com.au/
>>
>> On 10 August 2018 at 07:28, Denise Goodfellow <>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Graeme, couldn’t agree more. But such attitudes towards birders are not
>>> surprising. A couple of decades ago I put it to councils around the NT
>>> that birders are a market they should target. In North America birding has
>>> been the saviour of the economy of some small towns. There is still little
>>> interest as I found when I put it to both the mayors of my shire and
>>> Tennant Creek.
>>>
>>> Here, by the way, I’m not just talking listers. Most birders have a
>>> wide range of interests, and many are travelling with a spouse as well.
>>>
>>> Denise
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10 Aug 2018, at 6:31 am, Graeme Stevens <> wrote:
>>>
>>> Also my line Denise:
>>>
>>> Very polite advice on the power of this medium to spread the word and
>>> the risk of a "Birding and grey nomad" bypass as they give Winton a "why
>>> bother" just at the time when the severe drought needs visitors to support
>>> local businesses.
>>>
>>> Perhaps they have so many visitors stocking up before chasing Night
>>> Parrots that the don't really care?
>>>
>>> Graeme S
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* Denise Goodfellow <>
>>> *Sent:* Friday, 10 August 2018 6:23 AM
>>> *To:* Martin Butterfield
>>> *Cc:* Graeme Stevens; birding-aus; Michael Honeyman
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Birding-Aus] Winton, QLD
>>>
>>> I’m an ex-alderman (Darwin City Council) and know that this is the case
>>> for many issues. Which is why I took the tourism angle.
>>>
>>> Denise
>>>
>>> On 10 Aug 2018, at 5:28 am, Martin Butterfield <>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Welcome to the world of Local Government! What would get the Council's
>>> attention would be complaints from residents - preferably ones who pay a
>>> lot of rates - of the area. Outsiders jumping up and down can be safely
>>> ignored.
>>>
>>> Martin Butterfield
>>> http://franmart.blogspot.com.au/
>>> <https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ffranmart.blogspot.com.au%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9eb2a8f999194d797a5d08d5fe360a05%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636694430408168158&sdata=tjpbJLR8JqogHgsD4iNIei5ee7%2BpOv6FURSRW6FAA6A%3D&reserved=0>
>>>
>>> On 9 August 2018 at 21:52, Graeme Stevens <> wrote:
>>>
>>> And no response to email.
>>>
>>> Graeme Stevens
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Birding-Aus <> on behalf of
>>> Greg
>>> and Val Clancy <>
>>> Sent: Thursday, 9 August 2018 8:10 PM
>>> To: Michael Honeyman; Peter Shute
>>> Cc:
>>> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Winton, QLD
>>>
>>> I agree that we shouldn’t 'shoot from the hip' but I am still awaiting a
>>> response from the Director of Works who promised to call me back days
>>> ago.
>>> I have followed up but to no avail. Not a good look.
>>>
>>> Greg Clancy
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Michael Honeyman
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 8, 2018 10:27 PM
>>> To: Peter Shute
>>> Cc:
>>> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Winton, QLD
>>>
>>> Very much depends on the site Peter!
>>>
>>> And to an extent also depends on who you ask. I’ve worked on jobs where
>>> previous advice given was along the lines of ‘fill it all in and build a
>>> big
>>> automated plant’ and been able to recommend minor changes that kept the
>>> lagoons in situ with minor modifications.
>>>
>>> That said vegetation to any significant degree usually risks the
>>> integrity
>>> of the lining of the pond, and whether 500 rhizomes or 250 rhizomes are
>>> starting to penetrate the liner is academic - they all have to come out
>>> to
>>> protect the liner.
>>>
>>> Another factor is that ponds (usually over many years) accumulate sludge
>>> as
>>> part of the way they operate and this needs to be periodically dug out
>>> one
>>> way or another. If the reeds are growing in the sludge then again, they
>>> have
>>> to come out.
>>>
>>> This is all speculation on my part of course, just trying to give some
>>> context as someone experienced in the design and operation of treatment
>>> lagoons before the birding community shoots from the hip at too many
>>> council
>>> employees. In the unique situation of being both qualified as an engineer
>>> and qualified as an ornithologist!
>>>
>>> mjh
>>>
>>> On 8 Aug 2018, at 20:52, Peter Shute <> wrote:
>>>
>>> Are compromises feasible, Mike? Eg just remove half the reeds?
>>>
>>> Peter Shute
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> On 8 Aug 2018, at 6:47 am, mike.honeyman <>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi allThere is mention of the 'old' treatment ponds, was this a current
>>> active treatment plant?
>>> Excessive vegetation in treatment lagoons is not condusive to their
>>> primary purpose - treating sewage - so if they were active lagoons there
>>> may have been a need to have removed the veg to ensure it was working
>>> effectively.I'm not personally familiar with this site, but have
>>> consulted on other sites where the lagoons had reeds encroaching and the
>>> reeds have generally had to go, birds or not.
>>> mjh
>>> null
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