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Re: M/S decoding help

Subject: Re: M/S decoding help
From: "maxfrick78" maxfrick78
Date: Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:39 am (PDT)
Hi Rob,
wow, just 1% bit depth saturation? Can't you crank up the signal, or do you=
 deal with
signals so dynamic that you hit 0 dbFS if you boost them? That would be a d=
ynamic range
of more than 120 dB or so.. If remember correctly 24 bits-files have a sign=
al-to-noise
level of almost 140 dB!

Yeah, for people who own those MS -> ST mics it's definetly good to know th=
ey can still
access the discrete M and S channels.
I have another question but I'll make it a new post since the top is differ=
ent..
greetings,
Max



> Thanks for the clarifications, Max. Even with 24
> bit files, bit depth saturation in quiet
> locations often drops under 1%, so, having the
> discrete original would be a high priority for
> me. Then, the stereo files I export can go into
> my library without special tagging because the
> file number traces to the Mid & Side
> originals/session for re-mixing needs.
>
> Stacked LR>MS  MS>LR plugs might be especially
> useful for a person whose M-S mic doesn't have
> the option to create discrete files, like a Sony
> MS957? Rob D.
>
>
> At 11:07 AM +0000 7/9/06, maxfrick78 wrote:
> >--- In  Rob Danielson <type@> wrote:
> >  >
> >  > At 11:45 AM +0000 7/8/06, maxfrick78 wrote:
> >>  >  > M-S  can be recorded as "encoded" or as discrete M and S channel=
s. I
> >>  >>  prefer the later because  there are more options when creating th=
e
> >>  >>  stereo image in post using speakers or whatever monitoring I want=
 to
> >>  >>  emulate.=A0
> >>  >
> >>  >
> >>  >Hi everybody,
> >>  >many people have expressed the preference of
> >>  >recording MS-mics to discrete mid and side
> >>  >tracks. I would prefer the opposite since if you
> >>  >record a decoded "normal stereo" signal
> >>  >you can much easier audition and handle your
> >>  >material because it's just like using any
> >>  >other stereo file.
> >>
> >>  Hi Max--
> >>  [An aside: M-S stereo image monitoring in the
> >>  field isn't a high priority for me. Because its a
> >>  fixed jig, I usually position my M-S rig in a
> >>  setting with my ears/hand claps and referring to
> >>  vegetation, land-forms, relief etc. I do refer to
> >>  headphone monitoring with my adjustable ORTF rig.
> >>  My monitoring needs are quite different from
> >>  recording a specific species with a shotgun mic!
> >>  :-) ]
> >>
> >>  My question is, when you save your field
> >>  recordings in your library, do you use a system
> >>  to identify the stereo files that you recorded
> >>  with an M-S array?
> >
> >Hey Rob,
> >I would call the files "FileName MS-ST.aif" (for
> >MS-Stereo). Then "FileName MS.aif" would
> >be a discrete MS-recording.
> >Unfortunatly the decent MS-setup I would like to
> >own is out of my budget so far, so I can't
> >record my own sounds in MS but I regularely use
> >MS-recordings of ambiences (made by
> >others) in my job (film post). And yes, they
> >always record it as discrete M and S channels,
> >that's why got a bit annoyed by it.. ;-)
> >It would be simpler for me if they had decoded
> >it to stereo and I would have to use MS-
> >encoders/decoders only if I really needed it for
> >the scene (if we're talking about sound in
> >film-post). But maybe it's just me..
> >
> >
> >
> >>  >  ...the conversion LR -> MS -> LR is fairly
> >>  >simple and doesn't change a thing in the actual
> >>  >source material.
> >>
> >>  Have you tested this by chance? I've been
> >>  thinking it might be prudent to confirm that an
> >>  identical pair could be re-created if needed. Rob
> >>  D.
> >
> >
> >You can easily try it yourself using two
> >MS-decoders in a row and boosting the signal
> >+6dB in the end. You'll end up with what you
> >started. I have to admit that I haven't done
> >any really heavy testing on this but it is a
> >technique used in music-mastering; encoding +
> >decoding complete mixes to alter the mid-channel only, for example.
> >And yes, Ed is right, as in any processing in
> >the digital domain there would be some
> >changes if you dive deep enough. 24 bit files are a great plus here.
> >My point was that nobody should be afraid of
> >storing their MS-recordings decoded to
> >stereo because you can alway turn it back to MS.
> >It's just a bit of summing and phase-
> >swapping, nothing more. No magical "messing with
> >your stereo-image" or something like
> >that.
> >cheers,
> >Max
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Rob Danielson
> Peck School of the Arts
> University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee
> http://www.uwm.edu/~type/audio-art-tech-gallery/
>









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