Understood. I guess that if I was going to invest that much money
into mkh's, I'd go ahead and spend the extra two hundred bucks on a
recorder with a mic pre that I know will not inject noise into a
recording rather than bet on borderline separation. Did the -121dBu
figure come from literature or a relative test with a 722 or? Rob D.
At 7:47 PM +0000 1/8/06, Raimund Specht wrote:
>Rob, please note that the statements on my website are mainly
>addressed to recordists who are interested in getting good species
>recordings (certainly scientists who investigate animal
>communication). I agree with you that the properties of the
>preamplifier might be more important for recording quiet ambience.
>
>I agree that a combination of the Rode NT1-A and the PMD 671 is less
>optimal (-118 vs -121 dBu). The 3 dB difference would theoretically
>add 1.8 dB of noise. However, I believe that the MKH 60 (-114 vs -
>121dBu) is still a good match. I also believe that these small
>amounts af additional noise are irrelevant under practical field
>conditions. In my option, it is more important to care about where
>to place the microphone and how to protect it against shock and wind
>because these factors usually have a much more significant impact on
>the overall quality of a recording. Rich's and John's hummingbird
>recordings are good examples for the microphone positioning issue.
>
>Regards,
>Raimund
>
>
>--- In Rob Danielson <>
>wrote:
>>
>> Excellent suggestions Chris and Raimund. However, putting them
>> together, I would not invest $2500UK in mkh30/40 pair and then
>invest
>> in a Marantz 671. Raimund's recent tests suggest the ME series
>mics
>> are a good match for the 671 but his assessment on his web page
>that,
>> "Consequently, there is no relevant noise added by virtually any
>> professional recorder as long as a sufficiently sensitive (hot)
>> microphone is being used" may not hold true in cases when low
>noise,
>> high output, mics (like mkh's and Rodes) are used with maximum pre
>> gain to record ambience in quieter locations. Granted, these
>> recording circumstances are not typical, but they may be useful
>for
>> some recordists to consider who are very interested in
>> communications, capturing context and roles of local acoustics. A
>> recorder's overall mic pre gain can also play a role in final
>quality
>> in terms of generated bit depth saturation when ambient sound
>levels
>> are low. This said, it is important to distinguish that recording
>a
>> fore-grounded bird call, as an example, does not usually present
>> these demands!
>>
>> Its my experience that if the "effective" or performed self noise
>is
>> of the recorder's mic pre is not 7-10dBA lower than that of the
>> mic's, the recorder's mic preamp will definitely introduce noise
>if
>> higher mic preamp gains are used. I agree that field performance
>can
>> be significantly different than what specs suggest, but in this
>case,
>> side by side listening tests may be the best guide for these
>> demanding situations. If a long-term recorder investment is the
>> goal, the HD-P2 or Fostex FR-2 _might_ make a better match for
>mkh's
>> or Rodes, but side by side tests at this point are lacking to the
>> best of my knowledge. I wholly agree that powering options can be
>> very important to look at. CF, for example, may not the best
>choice
>> if one wants to leave the gear in a location for long periods of
>time.
>>
>> Understanding the basic concepts behind condenser capsule high
>> humidity performance should help us make better mic choices; but
>one
>> thing we can do on a list like this is compare whether the
>theories
>> are consistent with field experiences before making general
>> recommendations. This is important because innovative field
>recording
>> is quite dependent on finding and exploiting exceptions because
>the
>> demands on the gear are very high. For example, I believe the high
>> serial number NT1A's are externally polarized large condenser mics
> > and the two I use regularly under very humid conditions have
>> performed flawlessly including several times when my mkh 30 and 40
>> have failed. The AudioTechnica AT3031 with its fixed-charge back
>> plate as Raimund predicts, has also not failed but I've only run
>it a
>> dozen times for long periods in high humidity. A single failure
>> recording on a special trip can turn a recordist sour. Through a
>list
>> like this, we can access community-generated "best odds" and this
>> dialog is perhaps behind the mkh suggestions-- especially for a
>> "pack-up and head-out situation." After a pair of mics has proven
>to
>> perform without failure, repeatedly under known conditions, one's
>> forecasting gets much more meaningful. I am not confident that
>> there's a mic one can recommend that is 100% immune to high
>humidity.
>> Rob D.
>>
>> =3D =3D =3D =3D
>>
>> At 11:26 AM +0000 1/8/06, Raimund Specht wrote:
>> >I think that you are on the right track.
>> >
>> >Both the Marantz PMD671 and TASCAM HD-P2 are easy-to-use and
>rugged
>> >recorders. Both have a pre-recording buffer (which is not
>available
>> >on the MicroTrack2496) and can be operated from
>> >8 AA-type rechargeable batteries. Unfortunately, these battereis
>> >cannot be charged within the recorders. So, an additional NIMH or
>> >NiCD battery charger is required (I would recommedn a model than
>can
>> >charge all 8 cells at once - most are designed for 4 cells only).
>> >The advantage of the Marantz PMD 671 woudl be that there is a
>> >dedicated NiMH battery (model RB6151) that can be charged within
>the
>> >the recorder (in this way, you could save the weight of an
>external
>> >battery charger).
>> >
>> >The directional Sennheiser microphones ME66 or 67 are also a good
>> >choice. The slightly less directional ME66 is more compact, which
>is
>> >in my option an important advantage in the field. NOte that you
>> >could save some money (and 4.5 cm of the total microphone length)
>if
>> >you purchased the K6P phantom power powering module instead of the
>> >(optionally battery operated) K6 moduler.
>> >
>> >In Costa Rica it is important that your microphones are immune
>> >against high levels of humidity. The Sennheiser MKH series would
>be
>> >slightly better in that regard. In any case, I would avoid any
>> >common condenser microphones that are externally polarized.
>> >
>> >As far as I understand from the Rode NTG-1 specifications, it uses
>> >a "condenser transducer". Such a true condenser transducer is
>> >polarized with a relatively high voltage of more than 50V that
>might
>> >break down (and cause loud noise and/or loss of sensitivity) under
>> >humid conditions. However, I still have no practical experience
>with
>> >the new Rode NTG-1.
>> >
>> >On the other hand, any fixed-charge back plate, permanently
>> >polarized electret condenser microphone (as the Sennheiser K6/ME
>> >series or AudioTechnica AT3031, AT815b) should (theoretically) be
>> >less sensitive to humidity as externally polarized microphones.
>> >
>> >An additional mic preamp is absolutely not required. Even the
>> >preamplifier of the MicroTrack is good enough for the hot
>Sennheiser
>> >ME66/67 microphone series. I recently prepared some hints on
>> >microphone/preamp noise myths:
>> >http://www.avisoft.com/tutorial_mic_recorder.htm
>> >
>> >Shotguns are usually held in the hand. Therefore and because such
>> >directional microphones are very sensitive to even slight handling
>> >noise, I would strongly recommend a good shock mount or pistole
>grip
>> >(eg. Sennheiser MZS 20-1). You should also consider a zeppelin and
>> >hairy wind cover:
>> >
>>
>>http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser/icm_eng.nsf/root/products_micro
>p
>> >hones_accessories_outdoorprotectionmkh60mkh416
>> >
>> >Regards,
>> >Raimund
>> >
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>"Microphones are not ears,
>Loudspeakers are not birds,
>A listening room is not nature."
>Klas Strandberg
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
--
Rob Danielson
Film Department
University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee
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