programs like audition let you convert ms to xy and xy
to ms without all the confusion.
umashankar
--- Tim Nielsen <> wrote:
> Well, technically, recording either or is the same
> as recording both,=20
> since you are supposed to be able to convert back
> and forth no problems.
>
> Make sure that the capsules of your mics are lined
> up in a vertical=20
> plane. I mean, not the END of the mics, but where
> the actual capsule=20
> is. On a figure 8, this is usually set back from the
> front of the=20
> mic. This is very important, as MS is playing with
> phase=20
> relationships, so if the capsules aren't right on
> top of each other,=20
> it might mess things up a tiny bit.
>
> The answer is no, it's not HARD to go back from XY
> to MS (XY is in=20
> effect what you're recording), but it can get
> confusing. You'll need=20
> more than a stereo editor, since you actually need
> three tracks to do=20
> it.
>
> In case you're curious, here's the reverse, how to
> go from Non-MS=20
> tracks to MS (assuming the mid mic is on channel 1,
> and the side on=20
> channel 2):
>
> You need three tracks.
>
> Put the mid mic on channel 1, panned to the center.
> Put the side mic channel on BOTH channels 2 and 3.
> Pan track 2 to the left.
> Phase flip track 3 and pan it to the right (it HAS
> to be phase flipped)
>
> Now I usually 'link' channels 2 and 3 together, you
> want them to stay=20
> the same level. By adjusting the amount of the
> 'side' signal into the=20
> mix, you effectively adjust the stereo width. An
> equal relationship=20
> is about a 90% image. Less of the side signal will
> 'tighten' up the=20
> image, and no side will give you the mono signal
> only obviously.
>
> So not sure exactly the steps to 'reverse' that to
> get back the=20
> individual channels again, maybe Ed will know. I
> could figure it out,=20
> by my brain hurts.
>
> Also be aware that if you use some plugin to flip
> the phase, and it=20
> introduces sample delays, you'll have to compensate
> on the other=20
> channels.
>
> Tim
>
> On Oct 1, 2005, at 5:20 PM, nbioacoustics wrote:
>
> > Ed & Tim, Thank you both sooooo much! I think I
> have it all straight
> > and figured out in my head now.
> >
> > About the going back from L/R to MS, later, is
> that a really tough
> > thing to do? (yes or no answer is fine) if so, is
> there a way that I
> > can record BOTH in stereo and in MS so that I have
> both? or am I
> > asking for too much?
> >
> > Natalie :)
> > --- In Tim
> Nielsen <> wrote:
> > > I would add that unless you have a reason to
> vary the stereo width
> > > through the MS matrix on the 722, set your width
> control to 1:1,
> > > which I believe now is right up the center. If
> you turn the bottom
> > > knob all the way to the left, you'll be in
> effect putting the mono
> > > signal on both channels. All the way to the
> right, and you'll be
> > > putting the side mic only across both channels.
> THey've changed this
> > > since an earlier firmware, but I think that's
> correct.
> > >
> > > Pot 1 adjusts overall levels for both mics, and
> pot 2 adjust the
> > > stereo width.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Oct 1, 2005, at 3:29 PM, Ed Anson wrote:
> > >
> > > > Natalie,
> > > >
> > > > Your setup should work very well for what
> you're doing.
> > > >
> > > > The linked 1/2+MS decodes the mic inputs to
> normal (L/R)=20
> > stereo, which
> > > > is probably what you want.
> > > >
> > > > I'm not sure either about the difference
> between "monitor AB or=20
> > Track
> > > > AB". But given your linking setup you want to
> set HP for AB
> > > > (without MS
> > > > decoding).
> > > >
> > > > Here is a bit more general description of your
> options and how=20
> > they
> > > > work:
> > > >
> > > > If you record with input linking set to AB
> (not MS) then you will
> > > > record the mid signal (cardioid) to channel A
> and the side signal
> > > > (figure 8) to channel B. That requires that
> you use the MS HP=20
> > option
> > > > when recording and playing back, and also
> requires that you use=20
> > an M/S
> > > > matrix (decoder) in post to convert it to L/R
> format for normal=20
> > stereo
> > > > listening. I sometimes do it that way, if I
> anticipate a need=20
> > for more
> > > > flexibility in adjusting the stereo width.
> > > >
> > > > If you record with the MS linking option, the
> decoded Left=20
> > signal goes
> > > > to channel A and the Right signal goes to
> channel B. That is,=20
> > the 722
> > > > internally converts from M/S to L/R before
> recording. In this=20
> > case,
> > > > you
> > > > want to play back without MS conversion, and
> you do not need to=20
> > do any
> > > > conversion in post to get normal stereo. [You
> can, however,=20
> > convert it
> > > > back to M/S in post if you really need to, but
> that's another
> > > > conversation.]
> > > >
> > > > Until you have a good understanding of how M/S
> recording works, I
> > > > suggest that you stick with the MS linking
> option. That keeps
> > > > everything simple.
> > > >
> > > > Ed
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Oct 1, 2005, at 5:50 PM, nbioacoustics
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Ed,
> > > > >
> > > > > I have the following setup & questions:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. 1 to A, and 2 to B;
> > > > >
> > > > > 2. linked 1/2 + MS (does this mean that
> both the tracks and the
> > > > > monitoring is decoded into stereo?)
> > > > >
> > > > > 3. HP: Favourite Mode: monitor AB
> > > > >
> > > > > 4. playbakc mode: monitor AB or Track AB?
> does it matter?=20
> > aren't
> > > > they
> > > > > the same thing? I guess I don't understand
> the difference=20
> > between a
> > > > > track (recorded data?) and a monitor
> (???)...
> > > > >
> > > > > Natalie :)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Ed
> Anson=20
> > <>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > Natalie,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Setting up and monitoring M/S recording
> is one of a few=20
> > tricky
> > > > > things
> > > > > > in the 722. It's easy to get it wrong in
> subtle ways.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > One thing you didn't mention: How is your
> input linking=20
> > set up?
> > > > > You'll
> > > > > > get a different result if you set up
> unlinked, linked 1/2, or
> > > > linked
> > > > > > 1/2 MS. Any of those settings can be used
> for M/S recording,
> > > > but you
> > > > > > need to set other things up differently,
> and work=20
> > differently in
> > > > > post.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The simplest to work with is often the
> last (linked 1/2 MS),
> > > > as it
> > > > > > performs the conversion to L/R stereo
> before recording. In=20
> > this
> > > > > case,
> > > > > > you want to monitor A,B (not MS) both for
> recording and=20
> > playback.
> > > > > [Note
> > > > > > that in this mode, the top gain knob
> controls the record=20
> > level
> > > > and
> > > > > the
> > > > > > bottom knob controls stereo width. The
> latter should=20
> > normally be
> > > > > set to
> > > > > > 12 o'clock unless you want special
> effects.]
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As an aside: If you record as I
> suggested, you will have L/R
> > > > stereo
> > > > > on
> > > > > > your tracks, so listening with MS
> selected is not=20
> > appropriate. In
> > > > > fact,
> > > > > > doing so could result in the symptom you
> noticed if the=20
> > tracks
> > > > are
> > > > > > sufficiently correlated (as would happen
> if you recorded a=20
> > single
> > > > > sound
> > > > > > source near center).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I hope this helps, and you have much
> happy recording.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ed
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Oct 1, 2005, at 4:18 PM, nbioacoustics
> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thank you for helping!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I understand what you are saying, i
> think, but to=20
> > complicate
> > > > > things, I
> > > > > > > am using 1 cardioid mic and 1 figure 8
> mic, so I need to
> > > > choose
> > > > > the MS
> > > > > > > options (from what I understand).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I chose routing: Channel 1 (cardioid)
> to A
> > > > > > > =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=
=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82
> =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 Channel 2
> > > > (figure 8) to B
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > For monitoring with HP, I chose:
> monitor "A,B (MS)"
> > > > > > > -but when i am monitoring, the LCD
> icon won't let me=20
> > choose
> > > > "AB
> > > > > MS",
> > > > > > > only plain "A,B"
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > For playback, I chose: track A,B
> > > > > (MS)=C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=
=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82
> =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82
> > > > =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=
=82 =C3=82 =C3=82
> > > > > > > - and the LCD let's me play it in "AB
> MS"
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I still get the playback in the left
> headphone only.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I don't understand what I'm doing
> wrong...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Natalie :)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In
> Tim Nielsen
> > > > <>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > On the 722, I think there are two
> different modes for
> > > > > headphone,
> > > > > > > one=C3=82
> > > > > > > > for recording, and one for playback.
> You'll see next=20
> > to the
> > > > > > > headphone=C3=82
> > > > > > > > symbol on the unit on the display,
> it will display=20
> > what you
> > > > > are=C3=82
> > > > > > > > hearing in the headphones. The
> selector knob on the=20
> > right
> > > > side
> > > > > > > should=C3=82
> > > > > > > > cycle through the available
> headphone presets, when
> > > > recording,=C3=82
> > > > > > > > depending on the mode you're
> recording in, you'll=20
> > probably
> > > > > want it
> > > > > > > in=C3=82
> > > > > > > > 1,2 mode, where it puts input 1 on
> the left, and 2 on=20
> > the
> > > > > right.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On playback, it should be I think
> A,B where track A=20
> > is on
> > > > the
> > > > > left=C3=82
> > > > > > > > and B on the right? If it's saying
> just 1 or A, then=20
> > you're
> > > > > only=C3=82
> > > > > > > > hearing one track.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > See if that helps. I know the manual
> explains it=20
> > pretty well
> > > > > too.=C3=82
> > > > > > > > There are basically 'headphone
> favorites' that you=20
> > can store
> > > > > for=C3=82
> > > > > > > > recording and playback. It's in the
> menu, and you can=20
> > store
> > > > > which=C3=82
> > > > > > > > headphones modes you want to be
> active on the right side
> > > > knob.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > But actually what is probably
> happening is that your mic
> > > > input
> > > > > is=C3=82
> > > > > > > > only going to channel 1, and while
> recording, you're
> > > > listening
> > > > > to=C3=82
> > > > > > > > channel 1 (the headphones will play
> it as mono). On
> > > > playback,
> > > > > it's=C3=82
> > > > > > > > probably set to play back A,B, and
> since there is no=20
> > second
> > > > > > > channel,=C3=82
> > > > > > > > you'll hear only in the left.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Make sure you understand the mic
> input routing of the=20
> > 722.
> > > > > > > Basically,=C3=82
> > > > > > > > it's a square, with inputs 1 and 2
> on top, and record
> > > > tracks A
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > B=C3=82
> > > > > > > > on the bottom. So you link incoming
> track 1 to record
> > > > track A,
> > > > > > > input=C3=82
> > > > > > > > track 2 to track B. It's possible to
> input track 1 to A
> > > > AND B,
> > > > > or I=C3=82
> > > > > > > > think both inputs 1 and 2 to A AND
> B, so make sure=20
> > you're
> > > > > assign
> > > > > > > them=C3=82
> > > > > > > > correctly for your mics.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It bit me once, somehow input 2 got
> turned off, so I was
> > > > only=C3=82
> > > > > > > > recording mono.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Tim
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Oct 1, 2005, at 12:30 PM,
> nbioacoustics wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi there,
> > > > > > > > > I just bought a 722, which I plan
> on using in=20
> > Hawaii in 3
> > > > > weeks to
> > > > > > > > > record biophony for a scientific
> study of
> > > > biodiversity.=C3=82 I
> > > > > am
> > > > > > > used to
> > > > > > > > > working with plants, so I don't
> know much about this
> > > > stuff.
> > > > > Help!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I'm trying to figure out why when
> I am recording, I=20
> > can
> > > > hear
> > > > > > > sounds in
> > > > > > > > > both headphones, but then when I
> playback my=20
> > recording, I
> > > > > only get
> > > > > > > > > sound out of the left headphone...
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Does anyone have the patience to
> help me out?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thanks.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > "Microphones are not ears,
> > > > > > > > > Loudspeakers are not birds,
> > > > > > > > > A listening room is not nature."
> > > > > > > > > Klas Strandberg
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >=C3=82 Visit your group
> "naturerecordists" on the web.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >=C3=82 To unsubscribe from this group,
> send an email to:
> > > > > > > > >=C3=82
>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >=C3=82 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is
> subject to the Yahoo!
> > > > Terms of
> > > > > > > Service.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message
> have been removed]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Microphones are not ears,
> > > > > > > Loudspeakers are not birds,
> > > > > > > A listening room is not nature."
> > > > > > > Klas Strandberg
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > =C3=A2=E2=80"=C2=AA =C3=82 Visit your group
>=20
> > "naturerecordists" on
> > > > the web.
> > > > > > > =C3=82
> > > > > > > =C3=A2=E2=80"=C2=AA =C3=82 To unsubscribe
> from this group, send
> > > > an email
> > > > > to:
> > > > > > > =C3=82
>
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> > > > > > > =C3=A2=E2=80"=C2=AA =C3=82 Your use of
> Yahoo! Groups is subject
> > > > to the
> > > > > Yahoo! Terms of
> > > > > > > Service.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Microphones are not ears,
> > > > > Loudspeakers are not birds,
> > > > > A listening room is not nature."
> > > > > Klas Strandberg
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > > > >
> > > > > =E2=96=AA Visit your group
> "naturerecordists" on the web.
> > > > >
> > > > > =E2=96=AA To unsubscribe from this
> group, send an=20
> > email to:
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
> > > > > =E2=96=AA Your use of Yahoo! Groups
> is subject to the
> > > > Yahoo! Terms of
> > > > > Service.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Microphones are not ears,
> > > > Loudspeakers are not birds,
> > > > A listening room is not nature."
> > > > Klas Strandberg
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > SPONSORED LINKS
> > > > Science kits Science education=20=20=20=20
> Science kit for kid
> > > > Natural sound Recording technique My
> first science kit
> > > >
> > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > > >
> > > > Visit your group "naturerecordists" on the
> web.
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
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> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
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> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Microphones are not ears,
> > Loudspeakers are not birds,
> > A listening room is not nature."
> > Klas Strandberg
> >
> >
> >
> > SPONSORED LINKS
> > Science kits Science education Science kit for kid
> > Natural sound Recording technique My first science
> kit
> >
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> > Visit your group "naturerecordists" on the web.
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >
> >
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>
>
> "Microphones are not ears,
> Loudspeakers are not birds,
> A listening room is not nature."
> Klas Strandberg
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>=20
>
>
>
>
=09=09
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