Well, technically, recording either or is the same as recording both,=20
since you are supposed to be able to convert back and forth no problems.
Make sure that the capsules of your mics are lined up in a vertical=20
plane. I mean, not the END of the mics, but where the actual capsule=20
is. On a figure 8, this is usually set back from the front of the=20
mic. This is very important, as MS is playing with phase=20
relationships, so if the capsules aren't right on top of each other,=20
it might mess things up a tiny bit.
The answer is no, it's not HARD to go back from XY to MS (XY is in=20
effect what you're recording), but it can get confusing. You'll need=20
more than a stereo editor, since you actually need three tracks to do=20
it.
In case you're curious, here's the reverse, how to go from Non-MS=20
tracks to MS (assuming the mid mic is on channel 1, and the side on=20
channel 2):
You need three tracks.
Put the mid mic on channel 1, panned to the center.
Put the side mic channel on BOTH channels 2 and 3.
Pan track 2 to the left.
Phase flip track 3 and pan it to the right (it HAS to be phase flipped)
Now I usually 'link' channels 2 and 3 together, you want them to stay=20
the same level. By adjusting the amount of the 'side' signal into the=20
mix, you effectively adjust the stereo width. An equal relationship=20
is about a 90% image. Less of the side signal will 'tighten' up the=20
image, and no side will give you the mono signal only obviously.
So not sure exactly the steps to 'reverse' that to get back the=20
individual channels again, maybe Ed will know. I could figure it out,=20
by my brain hurts.
Also be aware that if you use some plugin to flip the phase, and it=20
introduces sample delays, you'll have to compensate on the other=20
channels.
Tim
On Oct 1, 2005, at 5:20 PM, nbioacoustics wrote:
> Ed & Tim, Thank you both sooooo much! I think I have it all straight
> and figured out in my head now.
>
> About the going back from L/R to MS, later, is that a really tough
> thing to do? (yes or no answer is fine) if so, is there a way that I
> can record BOTH in stereo and in MS so that I have both? or am I
> asking for too much?
>
> Natalie :)
> --- In Tim Nielsen <> wrote:
> > I would add that unless you have a reason to vary the stereo width
> > through the MS matrix on the 722, set your width control to 1:1,
> > which I believe now is right up the center. If you turn the bottom
> > knob all the way to the left, you'll be in effect putting the mono
> > signal on both channels. All the way to the right, and you'll be
> > putting the side mic only across both channels. THey've changed this
> > since an earlier firmware, but I think that's correct.
> >
> > Pot 1 adjusts overall levels for both mics, and pot 2 adjust the
> > stereo width.
> >
> >
> > On Oct 1, 2005, at 3:29 PM, Ed Anson wrote:
> >
> > > Natalie,
> > >
> > > Your setup should work very well for what you're doing.
> > >
> > > The linked 1/2+MS decodes the mic inputs to normal (L/R)=20
> stereo, which
> > > is probably what you want.
> > >
> > > I'm not sure either about the difference between "monitor AB or=20
> Track
> > > AB". But given your linking setup you want to set HP for AB
> > > (without MS
> > > decoding).
> > >
> > > Here is a bit more general description of your options and how=20
> they
> > > work:
> > >
> > > If you record with input linking set to AB (not MS) then you will
> > > record the mid signal (cardioid) to channel A and the side signal
> > > (figure 8) to channel B. That requires that you use the MS HP=20
> option
> > > when recording and playing back, and also requires that you use=20
> an M/S
> > > matrix (decoder) in post to convert it to L/R format for normal=20
> stereo
> > > listening. I sometimes do it that way, if I anticipate a need=20
> for more
> > > flexibility in adjusting the stereo width.
> > >
> > > If you record with the MS linking option, the decoded Left=20
> signal goes
> > > to channel A and the Right signal goes to channel B. That is,=20
> the 722
> > > internally converts from M/S to L/R before recording. In this=20
> case,
> > > you
> > > want to play back without MS conversion, and you do not need to=20
> do any
> > > conversion in post to get normal stereo. [You can, however,=20
> convert it
> > > back to M/S in post if you really need to, but that's another
> > > conversation.]
> > >
> > > Until you have a good understanding of how M/S recording works, I
> > > suggest that you stick with the MS linking option. That keeps
> > > everything simple.
> > >
> > > Ed
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Oct 1, 2005, at 5:50 PM, nbioacoustics wrote:
> > >
> > > > Ed,
> > > >
> > > > I have the following setup & questions:
> > > >
> > > > 1. 1 to A, and 2 to B;
> > > >
> > > > 2. linked 1/2 + MS (does this mean that both the tracks and the
> > > > monitoring is decoded into stereo?)
> > > >
> > > > 3. HP: Favourite Mode: monitor AB
> > > >
> > > > 4. playbakc mode: monitor AB or Track AB? does it matter?=20
> aren't
> > > they
> > > > the same thing? I guess I don't understand the difference=20
> between a
> > > > track (recorded data?) and a monitor (???)...
> > > >
> > > > Natalie :)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In Ed Anson=20
> <>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > Natalie,
> > > > >
> > > > > Setting up and monitoring M/S recording is one of a few=20
> tricky
> > > > things
> > > > > in the 722. It's easy to get it wrong in subtle ways.
> > > > >
> > > > > One thing you didn't mention: How is your input linking=20
> set up?
> > > > You'll
> > > > > get a different result if you set up unlinked, linked 1/2, or
> > > linked
> > > > > 1/2 MS. Any of those settings can be used for M/S recording,
> > > but you
> > > > > need to set other things up differently, and work=20
> differently in
> > > > post.
> > > > >
> > > > > The simplest to work with is often the last (linked 1/2 MS),
> > > as it
> > > > > performs the conversion to L/R stereo before recording. In=20
> this
> > > > case,
> > > > > you want to monitor A,B (not MS) both for recording and=20
> playback.
> > > > [Note
> > > > > that in this mode, the top gain knob controls the record=20
> level
> > > and
> > > > the
> > > > > bottom knob controls stereo width. The latter should=20
> normally be
> > > > set to
> > > > > 12 o'clock unless you want special effects.]
> > > > >
> > > > > As an aside: If you record as I suggested, you will have L/R
> > > stereo
> > > > on
> > > > > your tracks, so listening with MS selected is not=20
> appropriate. In
> > > > fact,
> > > > > doing so could result in the symptom you noticed if the=20
> tracks
> > > are
> > > > > sufficiently correlated (as would happen if you recorded a=20
> single
> > > > sound
> > > > > source near center).
> > > > >
> > > > > I hope this helps, and you have much happy recording.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ed
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Oct 1, 2005, at 4:18 PM, nbioacoustics wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you for helping!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I understand what you are saying, i think, but to=20
> complicate
> > > > things, I
> > > > > > am using 1 cardioid mic and 1 figure 8 mic, so I need to
> > > choose
> > > > the MS
> > > > > > options (from what I understand).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I chose routing: Channel 1 (cardioid) to A
> > > > > > =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=
=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 Channel 2
> > > (figure 8) to B
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For monitoring with HP, I chose: monitor "A,B (MS)"
> > > > > > -but when i am monitoring, the LCD icon won't let me=20
> choose
> > > "AB
> > > > MS",
> > > > > > only plain "A,B"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For playback, I chose: track A,B
> > > > (MS)=C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82=
=C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=
=82
> > > =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82=
=C3=82 =C3=82
> > > > > > - and the LCD let's me play it in "AB MS"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I still get the playback in the left headphone only.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't understand what I'm doing wrong...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Natalie :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Tim Nielsen
> > > <>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > On the 722, I think there are two different modes for
> > > > headphone,
> > > > > > one=C3=82
> > > > > > > for recording, and one for playback. You'll see next=20
> to the
> > > > > > headphone=C3=82
> > > > > > > symbol on the unit on the display, it will display=20
> what you
> > > > are=C3=82
> > > > > > > hearing in the headphones. The selector knob on the=20
> right
> > > side
> > > > > > should=C3=82
> > > > > > > cycle through the available headphone presets, when
> > > recording,=C3=82
> > > > > > > depending on the mode you're recording in, you'll=20
> probably
> > > > want it
> > > > > > in=C3=82
> > > > > > > 1,2 mode, where it puts input 1 on the left, and 2 on=20
> the
> > > > right.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On playback, it should be I think A,B where track A=20
> is on
> > > the
> > > > left=C3=82
> > > > > > > and B on the right? If it's saying just 1 or A, then=20
> you're
> > > > only=C3=82
> > > > > > > hearing one track.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > See if that helps. I know the manual explains it=20
> pretty well
> > > > too.=C3=82
> > > > > > > There are basically 'headphone favorites' that you=20
> can store
> > > > for=C3=82
> > > > > > > recording and playback. It's in the menu, and you can=20
> store
> > > > which=C3=82
> > > > > > > headphones modes you want to be active on the right side
> > > knob.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > But actually what is probably happening is that your mic
> > > input
> > > > is=C3=82
> > > > > > > only going to channel 1, and while recording, you're
> > > listening
> > > > to=C3=82
> > > > > > > channel 1 (the headphones will play it as mono). On
> > > playback,
> > > > it's=C3=82
> > > > > > > probably set to play back A,B, and since there is no=20
> second
> > > > > > channel,=C3=82
> > > > > > > you'll hear only in the left.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Make sure you understand the mic input routing of the=20
> 722.
> > > > > > Basically,=C3=82
> > > > > > > it's a square, with inputs 1 and 2 on top, and record
> > > tracks A
> > > > and
> > > > > > B=C3=82
> > > > > > > on the bottom. So you link incoming track 1 to record
> > > track A,
> > > > > > input=C3=82
> > > > > > > track 2 to track B. It's possible to input track 1 to A
> > > AND B,
> > > > or I=C3=82
> > > > > > > think both inputs 1 and 2 to A AND B, so make sure=20
> you're
> > > > assign
> > > > > > them=C3=82
> > > > > > > correctly for your mics.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It bit me once, somehow input 2 got turned off, so I was
> > > only=C3=82
> > > > > > > recording mono.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Tim
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Oct 1, 2005, at 12:30 PM, nbioacoustics wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi there,
> > > > > > > > I just bought a 722, which I plan on using in=20
> Hawaii in 3
> > > > weeks to
> > > > > > > > record biophony for a scientific study of
> > > biodiversity.=C3=82 I
> > > > am
> > > > > > used to
> > > > > > > > working with plants, so I don't know much about this
> > > stuff.
> > > > Help!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'm trying to figure out why when I am recording, I=20
> can
> > > hear
> > > > > > sounds in
> > > > > > > > both headphones, but then when I playback my=20
> recording, I
> > > > only get
> > > > > > > > sound out of the left headphone...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Does anyone have the patience to help me out?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "Microphones are not ears,
> > > > > > > > Loudspeakers are not birds,
> > > > > > > > A listening room is not nature."
> > > > > > > > Klas Strandberg
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >=C3=82 Visit your group "naturerecordists" on the web.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >=C3=82 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > > > >=C3=82
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >=C3=82 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> > > Terms of
> > > > > > Service.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Microphones are not ears,
> > > > > > Loudspeakers are not birds,
> > > > > > A listening room is not nature."
> > > > > > Klas Strandberg
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > > > > >
> > > > > > =C3=A2=E2=80"=C2=AA =C3=82 Visit your group=20
> "naturerecordists" on
> > > the web.
> > > > > > =C3=82
> > > > > > =C3=A2=E2=80"=C2=AA =C3=82 To unsubscribe from thi=
s group, send
> > > an email
> > > > to:
> > > > > > =C3=82
> > > > > > =C3=82
> > > > > > =C3=A2=E2=80"=C2=AA =C3=82 Your use of Yahoo! Grou=
ps is subject
> > > to the
> > > > Yahoo! Terms of
> > > > > > Service.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Microphones are not ears,
> > > > Loudspeakers are not birds,
> > > > A listening room is not nature."
> > > > Klas Strandberg
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > > >
> > > > =E2=96=AA Visit your group "naturerecordists" on the w=
eb.
> > > >
> > > > =E2=96=AA To unsubscribe from this group, send an=20
> email to:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > =E2=96=AA Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> > > Yahoo! Terms of
> > > > Service.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Microphones are not ears,
> > > Loudspeakers are not birds,
> > > A listening room is not nature."
> > > Klas Strandberg
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > SPONSORED LINKS
> > > Science kits Science education Science kit for kid
> > > Natural sound Recording technique My first science kit
> > >
> > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > >
> > > Visit your group "naturerecordists" on the web.
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of=20
> Service.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> "Microphones are not ears,
> Loudspeakers are not birds,
> A listening room is not nature."
> Klas Strandberg
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Science kits Science education Science kit for kid
> Natural sound Recording technique My first science kit
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> Visit your group "naturerecordists" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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