Good to know. I have a plugin in ProTools that does it, but I didn't=20
know how common it was in other programs.
Tim
On Oct 1, 2005, at 5:58 PM, umashankar wrote:
>
> programs like audition let you convert ms to xy and xy
> to ms without all the confusion.
>
> umashankar
> --- Tim Nielsen <> wrote:
>
> > Well, technically, recording either or is the same
> > as recording both,
> > since you are supposed to be able to convert back
> > and forth no problems.
> >
> > Make sure that the capsules of your mics are lined
> > up in a vertical
> > plane. I mean, not the END of the mics, but where
> > the actual capsule
> > is. On a figure 8, this is usually set back from the
> > front of the
> > mic. This is very important, as MS is playing with
> > phase
> > relationships, so if the capsules aren't right on
> > top of each other,
> > it might mess things up a tiny bit.
> >
> > The answer is no, it's not HARD to go back from XY
> > to MS (XY is in
> > effect what you're recording), but it can get
> > confusing. You'll need
> > more than a stereo editor, since you actually need
> > three tracks to do
> > it.
> >
> > In case you're curious, here's the reverse, how to
> > go from Non-MS
> > tracks to MS (assuming the mid mic is on channel 1,
> > and the side on
> > channel 2):
> >
> > You need three tracks.
> >
> > Put the mid mic on channel 1, panned to the center.
> > Put the side mic channel on BOTH channels 2 and 3.
> > Pan track 2 to the left.
> > Phase flip track 3 and pan it to the right (it HAS
> > to be phase flipped)
> >
> > Now I usually 'link' channels 2 and 3 together, you
> > want them to stay
> > the same level. By adjusting the amount of the
> > 'side' signal into the
> > mix, you effectively adjust the stereo width. An
> > equal relationship
> > is about a 90% image. Less of the side signal will
> > 'tighten' up the
> > image, and no side will give you the mono signal
> > only obviously.
> >
> > So not sure exactly the steps to 'reverse' that to
> > get back the
> > individual channels again, maybe Ed will know. I
> > could figure it out,
> > by my brain hurts.
> >
> > Also be aware that if you use some plugin to flip
> > the phase, and it
> > introduces sample delays, you'll have to compensate
> > on the other
> > channels.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> > On Oct 1, 2005, at 5:20 PM, nbioacoustics wrote:
> >
> > > Ed & Tim, Thank you both sooooo much! I think I
> > have it all straight
> > > and figured out in my head now.
> > >
> > > About the going back from L/R to MS, later, is
> > that a really tough
> > > thing to do? (yes or no answer is fine) if so, is
> > there a way that I
> > > can record BOTH in stereo and in MS so that I have
> > both? or am I
> > > asking for too much?
> > >
> > > Natalie :)
> > > --- In Tim
> > Nielsen <> wrote:
> > > > I would add that unless you have a reason to
> > vary the stereo width
> > > > through the MS matrix on the 722, set your width
> > control to 1:1,
> > > > which I believe now is right up the center. If
> > you turn the bottom
> > > > knob all the way to the left, you'll be in
> > effect putting the mono
> > > > signal on both channels. All the way to the
> > right, and you'll be
> > > > putting the side mic only across both channels.
> > THey've changed this
> > > > since an earlier firmware, but I think that's
> > correct.
> > > >
> > > > Pot 1 adjusts overall levels for both mics, and
> > pot 2 adjust the
> > > > stereo width.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Oct 1, 2005, at 3:29 PM, Ed Anson wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Natalie,
> > > > >
> > > > > Your setup should work very well for what
> > you're doing.
> > > > >
> > > > > The linked 1/2+MS decodes the mic inputs to
> > normal (L/R)
> > > stereo, which
> > > > > is probably what you want.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm not sure either about the difference
> > between "monitor AB or
> > > Track
> > > > > AB". But given your linking setup you want to
> > set HP for AB
> > > > > (without MS
> > > > > decoding).
> > > > >
> > > > > Here is a bit more general description of your
> > options and how
> > > they
> > > > > work:
> > > > >
> > > > > If you record with input linking set to AB
> > (not MS) then you will
> > > > > record the mid signal (cardioid) to channel A
> > and the side signal
> > > > > (figure 8) to channel B. That requires that
> > you use the MS HP
> > > option
> > > > > when recording and playing back, and also
> > requires that you use
> > > an M/S
> > > > > matrix (decoder) in post to convert it to L/R
> > format for normal
> > > stereo
> > > > > listening. I sometimes do it that way, if I
> > anticipate a need
> > > for more
> > > > > flexibility in adjusting the stereo width.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you record with the MS linking option, the
> > decoded Left
> > > signal goes
> > > > > to channel A and the Right signal goes to
> > channel B. That is,
> > > the 722
> > > > > internally converts from M/S to L/R before
> > recording. In this
> > > case,
> > > > > you
> > > > > want to play back without MS conversion, and
> > you do not need to
> > > do any
> > > > > conversion in post to get normal stereo. [You
> > can, however,
> > > convert it
> > > > > back to M/S in post if you really need to, but
> > that's another
> > > > > conversation.]
> > > > >
> > > > > Until you have a good understanding of how M/S
> > recording works, I
> > > > > suggest that you stick with the MS linking
> > option. That keeps
> > > > > everything simple.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ed
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Oct 1, 2005, at 5:50 PM, nbioacoustics
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Ed,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have the following setup & questions:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1. 1 to A, and 2 to B;
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2. linked 1/2 + MS (does this mean that
> > both the tracks and the
> > > > > > monitoring is decoded into stereo?)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 3. HP: Favourite Mode: monitor AB
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 4. playbakc mode: monitor AB or Track AB?
> > does it matter?
> > > aren't
> > > > > they
> > > > > > the same thing? I guess I don't understand
> > the difference
> > > between a
> > > > > > track (recorded data?) and a monitor
> > (???)...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Natalie :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Ed
> > Anson
> > > <>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > Natalie,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Setting up and monitoring M/S recording
> > is one of a few
> > > tricky
> > > > > > things
> > > > > > > in the 722. It's easy to get it wrong in
> > subtle ways.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > One thing you didn't mention: How is your
> > input linking
> > > set up?
> > > > > > You'll
> > > > > > > get a different result if you set up
> > unlinked, linked 1/2, or
> > > > > linked
> > > > > > > 1/2 MS. Any of those settings can be used
> > for M/S recording,
> > > > > but you
> > > > > > > need to set other things up differently,
> > and work
> > > differently in
> > > > > > post.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The simplest to work with is often the
> > last (linked 1/2 MS),
> > > > > as it
> > > > > > > performs the conversion to L/R stereo
> > before recording. In
> > > this
> > > > > > case,
> > > > > > > you want to monitor A,B (not MS) both for
> > recording and
> > > playback.
> > > > > > [Note
> > > > > > > that in this mode, the top gain knob
> > controls the record
> > > level
> > > > > and
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > bottom knob controls stereo width. The
> > latter should
> > > normally be
> > > > > > set to
> > > > > > > 12 o'clock unless you want special
> > effects.]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As an aside: If you record as I
> > suggested, you will have L/R
> > > > > stereo
> > > > > > on
> > > > > > > your tracks, so listening with MS
> > selected is not
> > > appropriate. In
> > > > > > fact,
> > > > > > > doing so could result in the symptom you
> > noticed if the
> > > tracks
> > > > > are
> > > > > > > sufficiently correlated (as would happen
> > if you recorded a
> > > single
> > > > > > sound
> > > > > > > source near center).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I hope this helps, and you have much
> > happy recording.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ed
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Oct 1, 2005, at 4:18 PM, nbioacoustics
> > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thank you for helping!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I understand what you are saying, i
> > think, but to
> > > complicate
> > > > > > things, I
> > > > > > > > am using 1 cardioid mic and 1 figure 8
> > mic, so I need to
> > > > > choose
> > > > > > the MS
> > > > > > > > options (from what I understand).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I chose routing: Channel 1 (cardioid)
> > to A
> > > > > > > > =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =
=C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82
> > =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 Channel 2
> > > > > (figure 8) to B
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > For monitoring with HP, I chose:
> > monitor "A,B (MS)"
> > > > > > > > -but when i am monitoring, the LCD
> > icon won't let me
> > > choose
> > > > > "AB
> > > > > > MS",
> > > > > > > > only plain "A,B"
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > For playback, I chose: track A,B
> > > > > > (MS)=C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =
=C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82
> > =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82
> > > > > =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =
=C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82
> > > > > > > > - and the LCD let's me play it in "AB
> > MS"
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I still get the playback in the left
> > headphone only.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I don't understand what I'm doing
> > wrong...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Natalie :)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In
> > Tim Nielsen
> > > > > <>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On the 722, I think there are two
> > different modes for
> > > > > > headphone,
> > > > > > > > one=C3=82
> > > > > > > > > for recording, and one for playback.
> > You'll see next
> > > to the
> > > > > > > > headphone=C3=82
> > > > > > > > > symbol on the unit on the display,
> > it will display
> > > what you
> > > > > > are=C3=82
> > > > > > > > > hearing in the headphones. The
> > selector knob on the
> > > right
> > > > > side
> > > > > > > > should=C3=82
> > > > > > > > > cycle through the available
> > headphone presets, when
> > > > > recording,=C3=82
> > > > > > > > > depending on the mode you're
> > recording in, you'll
> > > probably
> > > > > > want it
> > > > > > > > in=C3=82
> > > > > > > > > 1,2 mode, where it puts input 1 on
> > the left, and 2 on
> > > the
> > > > > > right.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On playback, it should be I think
> > A,B where track A
> > > is on
> > > > > the
> > > > > > left=C3=82
> > > > > > > > > and B on the right? If it's saying
> > just 1 or A, then
> > > you're
> > > > > > only=C3=82
> > > > > > > > > hearing one track.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > See if that helps. I know the manual
> > explains it
> > > pretty well
> > > > > > too.=C3=82
> > > > > > > > > There are basically 'headphone
> > favorites' that you
> > > can store
> > > > > > for=C3=82
> > > > > > > > > recording and playback. It's in the
> > menu, and you can
> > > store
> > > > > > which=C3=82
> > > > > > > > > headphones modes you want to be
> > active on the right side
> > > > > knob.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > But actually what is probably
> > happening is that your mic
> > > > > input
> > > > > > is=C3=82
> > > > > > > > > only going to channel 1, and while
> > recording, you're
> > > > > listening
> > > > > > to=C3=82
> > > > > > > > > channel 1 (the headphones will play
> > it as mono). On
> > > > > playback,
> > > > > > it's=C3=82
> > > > > > > > > probably set to play back A,B, and
> > since there is no
> > > second
> > > > > > > > channel,=C3=82
> > > > > > > > > you'll hear only in the left.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Make sure you understand the mic
> > input routing of the
> > > 722.
> > > > > > > > Basically,=C3=82
> > > > > > > > > it's a square, with inputs 1 and 2
> > on top, and record
> > > > > tracks A
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > B=C3=82
> > > > > > > > > on the bottom. So you link incoming
> > track 1 to record
> > > > > track A,
> > > > > > > > input=C3=82
> > > > > > > > > track 2 to track B. It's possible to
> > input track 1 to A
> > > > > AND B,
> > > > > > or I=C3=82
> > > > > > > > > think both inputs 1 and 2 to A AND
> > B, so make sure
> > > you're
> > > > > > assign
> > > > > > > > them=C3=82
> > > > > > > > > correctly for your mics.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It bit me once, somehow input 2 got
> > turned off, so I was
> > > > > only=C3=82
> > > > > > > > > recording mono.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Tim
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Oct 1, 2005, at 12:30 PM,
> > nbioacoustics wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hi there,
> > > > > > > > > > I just bought a 722, which I plan
> > on using in
> > > Hawaii in 3
> > > > > > weeks to
> > > > > > > > > > record biophony for a scientific
> > study of
> > > > > biodiversity.=C3=82 I
> > > > > > am
> > > > > > > > used to
> > > > > > > > > > working with plants, so I don't
> > know much about this
> > > > > stuff.
> > > > > > Help!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I'm trying to figure out why when
> > I am recording, I
> > > can
> > > > > hear
> > > > > > > > sounds in
> > > > > > > > > > both headphones, but then when I
> > playback my
> > > recording, I
> > > > > > only get
> > > > > > > > > > sound out of the left headphone...
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Does anyone have the patience to
> > help me out?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Thanks.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > "Microphones are not ears,
> > > > > > > > > > Loudspeakers are not birds,
> > > > > > > > > > A listening room is not nature."
> > > > > > > > > > Klas Strandberg
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >=C3=82 Visit your group
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> > > > > > > > > >
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> > send an email to:
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> >
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> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message
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> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "Microphones are not ears,
> > > > > > > > Loudspeakers are not birds,
> > > > > > > > A listening room is not nature."
> > > > > > > > Klas Strandberg
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > > > > > > >
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> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Microphones are not ears,
> > > > > > Loudspeakers are not birds,
> > > > > > A listening room is not nature."
> > > > > > Klas Strandberg
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > > > > >
> > > > > > =E2=96=AA Visit your group
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> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Microphones are not ears,
> > > > > Loudspeakers are not birds,
> > > > > A listening room is not nature."
> > > > > Klas Strandberg
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Microphones are not ears,
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> > > Klas Strandberg
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > SPONSORED LINKS
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> > Yahoo! Groups Links
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>
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