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Re: Finding Shure 183

Subject: Re: Finding Shure 183
From: Walter Knapp <>
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 20:07:21 -0500
From: Rob Danielson <>

> I've been wondering if we should say "very high" sensitivty.  The 
> Shure WL-183 is spec'd at 40 dBV/Pa which is on par with the 
> Sennheiser mkh 60 isn't it?

Well, I took you up on it, sort of. MKH-60 vs MX183 (the phantom powered 
one). It's not at all easy to compare. The MKH-60 as a short shotgun is 
taking sound from a fairly narrow field, while the MX183 is a omni 
taking things from all around. Superficial comparison indicates (on my 
Portadisc metering) readings higher with the MX183 with a all around 
sound with no real focus (the wind outside where the MX183 is about 
5-10dB higher). But as the sound comes more and more from one source or 
one direction the MKH-60 is beating the MX183 by a good 10-15dB. So, 
they are somewhere in the same ballpark as to raw sensitivity. But not a 
lot else.

Note it happens the two have the same impedance, so this is ok in that 
regard. If there is a great difference in mic impedance that would have 
to be factored in as well as sensitivity.

I also did a brief test against a MKH-40. Output was fairly similar, but 
sound quality was not. Though that can be a matter of taste. But on the 
sensitivity side it shows there is more to sensitivity than just that 
raw number at 1khz since the MKH-40 should be well less sensitive.

I don't like using extreme terms too much and will stick with good for 
the sensitivity of the MX183. I don't have near enough experience with 
it to say more. If by sensitivity you mean reach for distant subjects 
it's not near as good as the MKH in my brief check. Close in there is 
less difference.

>>>
>>>  though fairly high self noise
> 
> 
> ... but lower than any other lower-cost power in plug (PIP) mic we 
> know of?

Yes, relative to the field of lavalier omni's it's pretty low self noise.

But, relative to the needs of nature recording it's high. We need to see 
a similar mic with at least 6dBA lower self noise. To match the MKH 
omni, the MKH-20, it needs to lower it's self noise by 12dBA.

It's always good to know the range of options for what we do. Calling 
the MX183 low self noise is very misleading in a nature recordist's 
group. It would be less of a problem in, say, a group devoted to 
recording rock concerts.

I think fairly high self noise places the MX183 correctly in the range 
of mics for nature recording. It is a warning this mic will probably not 
be the best choice for quiet ambiance, but for a pond full of noisy 
frogs may do fine.

There is also the factor of expectations. I agonize over the details of 
my recordings. Then I hand over what I've got with all it's defects to 
the audio cavemen, the various biologists I associate with. "Do you like 
this version or this one better?" to which as often as not they will say 
both are perfect, they can't tell the difference. Though these folks are 
very expert at what each frog should sound like so are very good at 
pointing out recordings that are off in that way.

> When "what mic to buy" questions specify application, polar pattern 
> and whether for "PIP" or phantom, it helps  a lot. Rob D.

One thing to remember is that "what mic to buy" questions tend to come 
from novice recordists. They often do not understand these terms well 
enough to define what they need. That is what they are asking to learn. 
Anyone who has been in it a while will have quasi religious opinions as 
to "what mic to buy". If folks are more experienced they tend to set the 
question in terms of mic "x" vs mic "y".

I'd much rather see specifications of what's to be recorded, and what 
expectations there are for the recording. The big dividing line as I see 
it is individual calls vs ambiance. But there are other distinctions. 
These are the sorts of things that don't require any knowledge of the 
craft to say. Those of us who have managed to learn enough to fool some 
into thinking we are more advanced can then translate those expectations 
into equipment needed and why. The terminology of the craft can be 
introduced in a less daunting manner as needed.

It could be very easy for this group to become nothing but technical 
discussions. But that would not be very attractive to new folks to 
nature recording. We need to get them hooked before we drop the ton of 
technological bricks on them. You can record well without understanding 
the terminology, though it's easier if you do understand the 
implications of that stuff.

Walt




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