Raimund/Bill
> I just downloaded the most recent JB3 firmware (version
> 1.40.06p). They have
> indeed modified the recording options. The previous 10hr limit
> per track has
> been altered only in the 'Wired Remote' recording mode. The other modes
> (Line-In, Mic-In, Mic-In (Mono) and Optical-In) still have the 3
> / 10 hr limit
> per track.
Thanks for checking this, I specified that I was using the line in to recor=
d
from the bat detector, so I assume they were referring to the "continuous
mode" that you describe when they said the recording time was now only
limited by the HD size
> Yes, that should be possible. However, the JB3 manual says that
> the external
> power supply should only be used for charging the battery.
I asked if I could run the JB3 though the recharge socket and was told you
couldn't, but I suppose you could cobble together a connection that used th=
e
internal battery connectors
> >With different questions in mind and the desire to install several
> >bat monitoring units over a large area that would be visited and
> >downloaded infrequently, we 've assembled several units with
> >the Anabat detector and storage zcaim,
I have looked at the Anabat system, but they double the cost of our samplin=
g
stations, However, they do produce a Delay Switch that sits between the
recorder and Tape/minidisk recorder, that starts up the recorder, after eac=
h
bat detector event, allows it to come up to speed, and then transfers the
recording to it. According to the blurb this is meant to work with any
tape/minidisk recorder, but I'm not sure I understand how it can work with
any recorder unit. I have emailed to ask for further information, but had n=
o
reply so far.
In retrospect, I think we probably should have looked at costs from a
broader perspective and gone with the Anabat kit, but they aren't that
popular in the UK.
Graham
>
> > Raimund,
> > Creative's response to Graham says that MP3 recording duration
> > on the Nomad Jukebox is now limited only by the HD size , so it
> > would be interesting to know if the 3 hr limit on *.wav file
> > recording you noted has also been altered. I was told by a
> > knowledgeable user that one early Jukebox iteration could
> > record *.WAV files with no duration limit and the limit was added
> > later.
> >
> > For Graham, it should be simple enough to abandon the light,
> > expensive rechargeable lithium JB3 battery packs and assemble
> > a bulkier external battery pack with a runtime well in excess of
> > ten hours, using either NiMH or a gelled lead acid batteries,
> > voltage regulated as needed. I think I saw something on
> > www.nomadness.net about the acceptable voltage input range,
> > but it might be simpler to test it than find the discussion.
> >
> > Thanks for the point about the PC-only code on the Neuros web
> > site.In an email exchange with their chief technical officer about
> > firmware modification, I learned they receive inquiries from
> > academics moderately frequently. They are open to collaboration
> > with outside programmers (avoiding 'reverse engineering' to
> > achieve a non-standard operation) or doing a custom package. I
> > indicated there might be a niche market in research and
> > avocational nature recordists and pointed them to various
> > bioacoustic web sites.
> >
> > Your point about the possibly short life of even well executed,
> > innovative devices is painfully true. I've encountered several
> > discussions that suggest the Nomad JB3 is close to end-of -life
> > (much bulkier than most of the current competing MP3 units, not
> > many potential purchasers care about uncompressed audio,
> > etc.).
> >
> > Having grappled with recording bat audio and ultrasound with
> > different PCMCIA 350-500 kHz AtoD converters, laptops and
> > software packages, your Avisoft integrated system (USB
> > hardware, software with selective event capture) is a very
> > appealing concept. I would certainly like to purchase one or
> > more for high resolution recording and analysis when funds
> > permit.
> >
> > With different questions in mind and the desire to install several
> > bat monitoring units over a large area that would be visited and
> > downloaded infrequently, we 've assembled several units with
> > the Anabat detector and storage zcaim, which records highly
> > 'compressed' representations (frequency division with no
> > amplitude retention) of acoustic events (including bird, bat and
> > insect calls) on compact flash cards. Daily start and stop times
> > are programmed on the card and power drain is such that a five
> > watt solar panel with a 1.3 Ahr battery will run the system most
> > of the year in open western N. Am. habitats.
> >
> > The simplified acoustic representation means that a 512 Mb CF
> > card is adequate to record 1000-2500 multi-pulse bat 'passes'
> > per night (e.g., lowland river edge in summer) for more than six
> > weeks. The practical constraint on download intervals is set by
> > habitat linked concerns about data loss from damage and
> > biofouling (such as curious bears or wasp nests on microphone
> > grids). We need different tools for different tasks and options
> > (storage density , device power requirements, unit cost) are
> > gradually improving, but this seemed an affordable approach to
> > exploring variability and seasonal patterns of bat acoustic activity.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > --- In
> > wrote:
> > > Bill,
> > >
> > > Thanks for your note. I have to admit that I've never used the
> > Nomad JB3 for
> > > long-term recording. I use it primarily for listening music. I have
> > copied
> > > my entire music CD collection (150 albums, MP3-encoded at
> > 256 kbps) onto it's
> > > hard drive and I'm very satisfied with it's performance for that
> > application
> > > (it has been designed for that purpose).
> > >
> > > You are correct, the JB3 has an additional limitation on the
> > recording time
> > > for a single file. I just checked my JB3 (firmware version
> > 1.32.02p). In
> > > uncompressed .WAV file recording, the maximum duration is 3
> > hours (independently
> > > of the sample rate and the number of channels). In the .MP3
> > recording mode,
> > > the maximum duration is 10 hours (the selected bit rate does
> > not matter).
> > >
> > > Thanks for the link to the Neuros HD backpack system. That
> > seems to be
> > > indeed an interesting alternative to the Nomad JB3.
> > >
> > > As far as I understand, the source code provided on their
> > website is the
> > > source code for the NSM PC software only =96 not the firmware
> > that resides inside
> > > the device. In fact, it would be extremely difficult to edit the
> > firmware of
> > > the device. That would require detailed and very special
> > knowledge. So, even
> > > a well-trained engineer would require several months (or even
> > years) to
> > > become familiar with the hard- and firmware architecture. And
> > there would be the
> > > potential risk that all the efforts get lost because the production
> > of the
> > > device may expire suddenly...
> > >
> > > So, in my opinion it is an illusion to get a cheap and
> > full-functional
> > > recording device for such special applications as long-term bat
> > sound recording.
> > >
> > > Currently, the best solution for long-term monitoring of animal
> > sounds would
> > > be to use a PC -based system. In conjunction with appropriate
> > software (e.g.
> > > Avisoft-RECORDER http://www.avisoft.info/recorder.htm), it
> > would be possible
> > > to set-up the system for a sound-activated recording mode.
> > Special
> > > techniques (amplitude thresholds in pre-defined frequency
> > intervals and entropy
> > > filters in conjunction with a pre-recording buffer) can help to
> > reject unwanted
> > > sounds from triggering.
> > >
> > > The main drawback of using a continuous recording mode
> > would be the huge
> > > amounts of data that have to be analyzed afterwards.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Raimund
> > >
> > >
> > > > I've been interested in (relatively) inexpensive HD based
> > > > recorders for similar multi-station audio range monitoring
> > > > purposes (birds, downconverted bat audio) and so have
> > > > followed Nomad JB3 disussions on various net venues. My
> > > > impression (with no hands-on experience ... which Raimund
> > can
> > > > perhaps correct) is that the JB3, at least in more recent
> > firmware
> > > > versions which offer record level controls and the like, may
> > have
> > > > a firmware limit of about two hours on unattended recording
> > > > duration (independent of the 2 gb wav file maximum).
> > > >
> > > > As far as I know, the Neuros HD backpack system
> > (20,30,40gb)
> > > > (http://www.neurosaudio.com/) is the only other MP3
> > oriented
> > > > HD recorder which is also capable of uncompressed *.wav
> > > > recording from line in (part of a recent firmware upgrade, so
> > not
> > > > listed in their product pdf). It is more appealing in some
> > respects
> > > > than the JB3 in that they apparently use an open firmware
> > > > system ( at least some of their code is available on the web
> > > > site), encourage programmers and developers, and are
> > > > responsive to user feedback . Perhaps this is worth a look.
> > They
> > > > are close to implementing timed recording from the built-in
> > FM
> > > > tuner. With user interest it would be only a moderate step to
> > > > implement timed recording from the line-in.
> > > >
> > > > If you can accept MP3 only HD recording, there are several
> > other
> > > > options (e.g., Archos).
> > > >
> > > > Bill Rainey
> > > >
> > > > --- In "Graham M
> > Smith"
> > > > <> wrote:
> > > > > Raimund,
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks again, the MP3 option sounds good. I had not
> > realised
> > > > there was a
> > > > > limit to the size of a WAV file.
> > > > >
> > > > > Graham
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From:
> > > > > > Sent: 24 March 2004 20:01
> > > > > > To:
> > > > > > Subject: RE: [Nature Recordists] Alternatives to Minidiscs
> > - or
> > > > bats
> > > > > > again
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Graham,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > as Marty already explained, even a 20 GB disk has a
> > huge
> > > > capacity. The
> > > > > > recording time of 2000 minutes (at 44.1 kHz, stereo)
> > would
> > > > > > further increase if you
> > > > > > used only one channel and a sample rate of only 22 kHz.
> > > > Then you would get
> > > > > > 8000 minutes (133 hours). However, you should note that
> > a
> > > > single
> > > > > > .WAV file can
> > > > > > hold only 2 GB of data.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As discussed earlier, it would also be justified to use the
> > > > > > compressed .MP3
> > > > > > format for recording bat detector output signals. That
> > would
> > > > > > further increase
> > > > > > the recording time. For instance, a moderate 5:1
> > > > compression (at 64kbps)
> > > > > > would provide 660 hours (4 weeks!).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Raimund
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Raimund,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks, Have you any idea of how many hours of
> > > > uncompressed WAV
> > > > > > file, the
> > > > > > > 20gb and 40gb models will hold - I don't seem able to
> > find
> > > > that
> > > > > > on the web
> > > > > > > site.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Graham
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > From:
> > > > > > > > Sent: 24 March 2004 16:18
> > > > > > > > To:
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Nature Recordists] Alternatives to
> > Minidiscs
> > > > - or bats
> > > > > > > > again
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Graham,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The 'NOMAD Jukebox 3' by Creative Labs Inc. has a
> > line
> > > > in connector,
> > > > > > > > FireWire interface and also offers uncompressed
> > .wav
> > > > file recording:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > http://www.nomadworld.com/products/Jukebox3
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > > Raimund
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Some may remember the earlier thread on rcording
> > > > bats, where my
> > > > > > > > recording
> > > > > > > > > problems looked as if they would be solved by the
> > new
> > > > Hi-MD
> > > > > > recorders,
> > > > > > > > > However, we need these (20 in all) in April/early May
> > > > and it seems
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > release has been delayed until June.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So rather annoyingingly, I am going to have to buy
> > an
> > > > alternative.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Is any one aware of which MP3 juke box type
> > devices
> > > > have a line in,
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > will
> > > > > > > > > record as wve files, the output from the bat
> > detectors.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Just so I can have this an option as I look at the
> > > > alternatives.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Many thanks,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Graahm S
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > "Microphones are not ears,
> > > > > > > > > Loudspeakers are not birds,
> > > > > > > > > A listening room is not nature."
> > > > > > > > > Klas Strandberg
> > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > +++ NEU bei GMX und erstmalig in Deutschland:
> > > > T=DCV-gepr=FCfter
> > > > > > > > Virenschutz +++
> > > > > > > > 100% Virenerkennung nach Wildlist. Infos:
> > > > > > http://www.gmx.net/virenschutz
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "Microphones are not ears,
> > > > > > > > Loudspeakers are not birds,
> > > > > > > > A listening room is not nature."
> > > > > > > > Klas Strandberg
> > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > __________ NOD32 1.691 (20040324) Information
> > > > __________
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus
> > system.
> > > > > > > > http://www.nod32.com
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Microphones are not ears,
> > > > > > > Loudspeakers are not birds,
> > > > > > > A listening room is not nature."
> > > > > > > Klas Strandberg
> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > +++ NEU bei GMX und erstmalig in Deutschland:
> > > > T=DCV-gepr=FCfter
> > > > > > Virenschutz +++
> > > > > > 100% Virenerkennung nach Wildlist. Infos:
> > > > http://www.gmx.net/virenschutz
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Microphones are not ears,
> > > > > > Loudspeakers are not birds,
> > > > > > A listening room is not nature."
> > > > > > Klas Strandberg
> > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > __________ NOD32 1.692 (20040324) Information
> > > > __________
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> > > > > > http://www.nod32.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Microphones are not ears,
> > > > Loudspeakers are not birds,
> > > > A listening room is not nature."
> > > > Klas Strandberg
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > +++ NEU bei GMX und erstmalig in Deutschland:
> > T=DCV-gepr=FCfter Virenschutz +++
> > > 100% Virenerkennung nach Wildlist. Infos:
> > http://www.gmx.net/virenschutz
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Microphones are not ears,
> > Loudspeakers are not birds,
> > A listening room is not nature."
> > Klas Strandberg
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> +++ NEU bei GMX und erstmalig in Deutschland: T=DCV-gepr=FCfter
> Virenschutz +++
> 100% Virenerkennung nach Wildlist. Infos: http://www.gmx.net/virenschutz
>
>
>
> "Microphones are not ears,
> Loudspeakers are not birds,
> A listening room is not nature."
> Klas Strandberg
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.698 (20040329) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.nod32.com
>
>
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