Walter wrote:
>Rob D. wrote:
>> Vlad wrote:
>>
>>
>>> The Shure
>>>VP88 MS still looks good.
> >
>>
>> A surprisingly good package for the field recording especially for
>> close to medium close sounds.
>
>It's a pretty old design. Can be had fairly cheaply as a result. I
>assume you mean close to medium close on the scale of music recording.
>On the scale of nature recording it's pretty much going to be limited to
>just very close to close. The self noise will prevent using much gain on
>it for getting greater distance.
Generally, yes. Steven Feld used his VP88 for his Balkan Morning CD's
for music there also some incredible location recordings. Spring
frogs and geese are on the louder side of outdoor events near ponds.
> >> My inspirations for
>>> nature recording are the geese that stop over here on their way
>>> north, and the frogs in our backyard which sound wonderful in the
>>
>> springtime...
>>
>> Seems like the VP88 could work for this. But if this is the main
>> situation you want to record, the pond is so close, you could run mic
>> cable. I'd consider a pair of good Crown PZM's (P6's?) and spread
>> them apart 20-200' right on the water edge. Make a little cover to
>> keep the rain from hitting them directly and you can leave them out
>> and monitor/record from the house whenever you want. Try different
>> spots. The PZM's are almost entirely immune to wind as is. On eBay
>> pretty often too. But I would be leery of leaving a VP88 out
>> overnight.
>
>One should note that Crown's PZMs are almost universally fairly noisy
>mics. Otherwise you might get some things close to the mics. I doubt
>that you could get 200' of separation covered by the PZM's. Though 20'
>might be ok. At 200' separation you will be recording two mono circles
>with little connection to each other, not stereo.
Not sure of the benefits of such a narrow definition of "stereo."
When the mics are close to two different places, the chances of
capturing something close are increased. Sounds coming from afar
always integrate the channels into a sense of one place. A goose
flying/calling about 200' feet away from mics 120' apart can be
stunning. Scientifically, its okay to write, "two groups of frogs
120' feet apart" on the tape cover.
Recording is a time/space strategy involving living things.
Absolutely, the Crown PZM's are noisy (23dB noise and ~3dB
sensitivity). But, for documenting out one's window and getting great
material to work with, spending $300 on mics one can set outside 24/7
have pretty good odds against condenser mics one is setting-up and
removing all the time. Leave it and they will come.
>
>> Walter wrote:
>>
>>>The spec you will find is more important than that, if not the most
>>>important, is the self noise spec. Because we are so often working at
>>>considerable distance.
>>>
>> Below is a web page listing quite a few condenser mics ranked in
>> terms of self noise. Higher sensitivity in conjunction with low self
>> noise is a generally a promising combination- esecially for ambience
> > and very distant sounds. You might want to sort the list by pickup
> > pattern first (e.g. omni, fig 8) and write down some model numbers
> > and then sort by self noise and look for matches. Smaller condenser
>> mics are the most popular for field recording. The list is a few
>> years old and doesn't have all brands including Telinga, MBHO, Crown,
>> Sony and others.
>>
>>
>>http://www.microphonereview.com/miclist.asp?F_Sensitivity=3D&F_Noise=3D&F=
_SPL=3D&F_LLF=3D&F_ULF=3D&order=3DMicrophones.%5BNoise+Level%5D%2C+
>
>This table is interesting in what it does not include. Like the MKH-60
>and MKH-70, both of which would be right up there at the low noise end
>of the table. The ME mics seem to be missing too.
>
>It also does not include the VP88. As I've noted it's a pretty noisy
>mic. Here's the specs from Shure's pdf on the mic:
>
>Self noise: 24dBA
>Sensitivity (1 kHz, MS mode)
> Open Circuit Voltage: -66 dB (0.5 mV) Mid. (Side level 1.6 dB
> higher than Mid level) (0 dB=3D1 V/Pa)
>
>Before doing specs or looking at mics you need to evaluate what you
>might be recording in the next few years.
Yes, the list has more studio mikes, but its nice to see so many
lined-up via noise with spec sheets linked. It really helped me get a
sense of what low noise/quality really costs.
I'm not sure I was ready to think so far ahead about what I would
want to record and make a good $1000 + investment until I had
recorded a few years. Its a very big step for some folks to move
from recording in the back yard to going down the road and across the
county. Trying to EQ those noisy sound files has its purpose in the
big picture if improved listening skills leads to better recordings.
There are so many factors that contribute to great recordings, one
can only try to affect a small number of them. After working with
low quality gear for 7 years, it was truly thrilling to experience a
good preamp and good mics. But I still get my most memorable wildlife
recordings when the MKH's are right up on something and mic noise
suddenly isn't such a huge factor. Of course I'm glad I use them, but
they were not absolutely critical in these situations. One could
argue that I almost really need the low-noise capability when
recording minimal ambience, but it took me years to be able hear into
and enjoy recording these spaces.
It's fun to try and sense where passions lie, newcomers included. A
growing number of nature recordists is good for preserving and
further enjoying the things we care about, including love of process
and love of low noise. Clearly, newbies can gain from both, the
former is certainly less costly and sometimes easier for a newcomer
to talk about.
Rob D.
=3D =3D =3D =3D =3D
> Pick mic types that will cover
>that and compare them. Going with a VP88 is limiting yourself to
>recording things close. It could be part of a set several mics for
>recording at various distances, but if you wish a single mic with the
>greatest range of capability it's probably not the way to go.
>
>Walt
>
>
>
Ro
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