--- In "Jesse Off" <> wrote:
>
> --- In "j.chitte" <j.chitte@> wrote:
>
> > This is getting very messy. Since 'find' is one of the tools
> provided
> > by busybox it appears that this is another significant breakage
in
> > what TS are still providing as supplied software.
> >
> > Worse , if anyone is daft enough to buy the "development kit"
they
> > actually pay money for this broken unmaintained release.
> >
> > I really should not need to set up a complete cross-compiler
> > development system to replace what should be provided in a
working
> > state.
> >
> > One of the main reasons I chose a TS product was it was claimed
to
> > have a working mini linux out of the box and a full debian image
> > suitable for installing on a USB device.
> >
> > Since the supplied busybox is too broken to even rebuild it's own
> > update I'll now have to find an arm binary to get out of this
> chicken
> > and egg situation.
> >
> > "Fully embrasing linux" seems to mean letting this list do most
of
> > the product support for them.
> >
>
Many thanks for taking the time to explain Technologics' stance on
this. However there are certain points that do not really stand up.
> We refuse in all but extreme cases to update software shipping on
> released products. Indeed-- at one point several years ago we
> updated busybox and immediately had to un-update it since it had
> fixed some known bugs, but introduced new ones. This fact about
TS
> may upset some, but we have people shipping products in the field
and
> they'd be even more upset if we started changing.
Micheal already replied with much the same arguement , which is
rather missing the point (possibly on purpose). No-one suggested you
change what is shipped. Continuity is an important and valid reason
for not changing what goes out with the product, buggy as it is.
That does not prevent you from posting a working tarball on your site.
>We're not about
to
> upset all these companies just so a new featured version of awk
and
> find can be provided to Linux novices who find it prohibitively
> difficult to recompile from source code.
>
Neither is this a case of "new features" the busybox awk is utterly
and fundementally broken to the point where some of the scripts you
supply don't even work.
Simlarly the debian image fails to boot cleanly with a handful of
error messages that could hardly have gone unnoticed in testing.
> > Anyone thinking of buying a TS product should realise they are
going
> > to have to get head long into embedded system development. They
do
> > not work out of the box as advertised.
>
> As this is an embedded product designed for development, it should
be
> no surprise that you have to "get head long into embedded system
> development", as you say. We make no illusion that developing
with
> Linux is easy and annoyance free. Its harder for some than
others.
>
> The versions of Linux preloaded on our boards is intended as a
demo.
Let's take a snip from one of your product descriptions on your newly
designed web site:
>>
The TS-ARM SBCs include the TS-Linux compact embedded OS installed by
default in on-board flash memory (8 MB, JFFS or YAFFS filesystems).
The eCos/Redboot boot loader is used to open the OS of choice. In
addition, the full featured Debian Linux distribution can be used
with a network directory (NFS root) or larger flash drives (256 MB),
such as Compact Flash, SD Cards or USB memory sticks. The Linux
system includes a complete GNU C/C++ embedded development environment
installed.
>>
This clearly gives the impression that both TSlinux and Debian image
are ready to go working systems, nowhere does it suggest or imply
it's only a demo. Several places also state "linux out of the box",
not "buggy linux demo, be prepared to build linux from scratch if you
want to use our boards".
If what you say is the official line from TS you are misrepresenting
your products.
> We are a small company with limited resources and I can't have
design
> engineers concerned with keeping the features of various software
> utilities they didn't write up to date on a version of Linux that
we
> really cannot change now anyway. Trying to keep updated with open
> source is a black hole that would require us to either raise
prices
> as our product line grows or start discontinuing older products.
Again, I wonder whether you are not deliberately misinterpreting. No-
one suggested you engage in permanently maintaining a full distro.
Just fix what you sell. Fixing a few bugs as your customers make you
aware of them and providing a CORRECTLY WORKING TARBALL would not be
a gargantuan task.
This would fit in with your existing structure on your site and would
not break compatibility with your existing products.
TSlinux is pretty functional as is the "full Debian" but they never
quite got finished.
> Not only would that be a stupid business move, it would alienate a
large
> class of like-minded embedded developers that do not subscribe to
the
> PC and consumer electronics industry mindset of perpetual update
and
> redesign.
>
> //Jesse Off
>
TSlinux is not presented as a demo , it's listed all over your
product descriptions as a feature. It is installed by default on what
your ship. It is part of what you advertise and sell.
You should either fix the product or fix the product descriptions.
Unless of course you think giving an accurate product description to
customers would be a "stupid business move" as well.
Thank you for clarifying Technologic's stance on this issue.
best regards, jacques.
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