Hi,
j.chitte <> [20080423 21:16:28 -0000]:
>
> [snipped Technologics stance]
>
> Many thanks for taking the time to explain Technologics' stance on
> this. However there are certain points that do not really stand up.
>
'Stand up' to how *you* think Technologics should do business you mean? How
you want a vendor to function and how that vendor actually functions to meet
the needs of it's 'userbase' (I mean here embedded developers) is really
Technologics decision.
> Micheal already replied with much the same arguement , which is
> rather missing the point (possibly on purpose). No-one suggested you
> change what is shipped. Continuity is an important and valid reason
> for not changing what goes out with the product, buggy as it is.
>
> That does not prevent you from posting a working tarball on your site.
>
Does not prevent you from rolling your own and publishing on a website.
> >>
> The TS-ARM SBCs include the TS-Linux compact embedded OS installed by
> default in on-board flash memory (8 MB, JFFS or YAFFS filesystems).
> The eCos/Redboot boot loader is used to open the OS of choice. In
> addition, the full featured Debian Linux distribution can be used
> with a network directory (NFS root) or larger flash drives (256 MB),
> such as Compact Flash, SD Cards or USB memory sticks. The Linux
> system includes a complete GNU C/C++ embedded development environment
> installed.
> >>
>
> This clearly gives the impression that both TSlinux and Debian image
> are ready to go working systems, nowhere does it suggest or imply
> it's only a demo. Several places also state "linux out of the box",
> not "buggy linux demo, be prepared to build linux from scratch if you
> want to use our boards".
>
erm...mine boots, does not meet my needs so I rolled my own. Hell I rolled
my own kernel patch for the board.
To me the above says "this board can run Linux, use ours or use your own".
Misinterpretation I fear.
> Again, I wonder whether you are not deliberately misinterpreting. No-
> one suggested you engage in permanently maintaining a full distro.
> Just fix what you sell. Fixing a few bugs as your customers make you
> aware of them and providing a CORRECTLY WORKING TARBALL would not be
> a gargantuan task.
>
Now is that a 'correctly working tarball' for you or for me?
> TSlinux is pretty functional as is the "full Debian" but they never
> quite got finished.
>
Debian for the ARM platform is not 100% in etch at the moment, hell it does
not even exist for EABI. Could you tell me what a 'full Debian' is?
> TSlinux is not presented as a demo , it's listed all over your
> product descriptions as a feature. It is installed by default on what
> your ship. It is part of what you advertise and sell.
>
It's presented as an *embedded platform* for *embedded development* for use
by *embedded developers*.
> You should either fix the product or fix the product descriptions.
>
I think we all can suggest something else that needs 'fixing'.
So far all the complaints I have seen are either:
1. regular Linux problems
2. no internet access for the board
3. poorly configured internet access for the board (DNS)
4. "my aptitude sources are fscked"
5. "I have C code that does not work anywhere, especially so on my ARM board,
I think some C library functions are missing..."
6. awww man whats a cross compiler
7. awww man, <insert userspace tool> is not the latest version, you suck
Not a single one of these issues belong in a mailing list focusing on
*hardware*. Do yourself a favour, put the ARM board aside, hell put it on
ebay, and play with qemu first. Once you can do this, cross compile, roll
your own toolchain and build your own root filesystem from scratch for your
target platform...then you should consider blowing the dust off an actual ARM
board. If you cannot do this then stick to x86 (or whatever architecture
your host platform is, Sparc, PPC, etc).
You are lashing out at the wrong people...you need to develop your own
developer skills rather than grumbling that you want someone else to provide
you with the moon-on-a-stick and why does the root filesystem provided does
not solve world poverty.
Dear God, I thought my last email on this would have gotten through to you.
Embedded World Responsibilities:
vendor: detailed documentation on all aspects of the hardware
lusers: ability to read and use that documentation to self-help themselves,
read C code for breakfast, write kernel code for lunch and
despise with reason all that is x86
Desktop PeeCee World:
vendor: latest and 'greatest' versions of software and drivers
lusers: to pay and use the supplied software. Not using software in the
vendor's 'compatibility matrix' voids any warranty and
support contract
The rootfs does *not* matter. Why do you think we have hundreds if not
thousands of Linux distros. Kernel is important, rootfs is trivial to DIY
and trivial to change. This is not a case "well if it is so easy why doesn't
TS roll one", you can ask yourself "hell why use Ubuntu instead of Redhat".
One distro might suit you, but be completely unsuitable for someone else.
I really think we need a FAQ, where 99% of the answers are "use qemu, this
board is not for you". :(
Regards
Alex
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