Hi Keith and others!
So we did (at least) get some agreeing about the issue that a Telinga
SSM demo file should be uploaded raw and if it was filtered it should say s=
o.
It pleases me. I agree.
Keith, since you wrote your serious reflections to me, I have been
trying to look into "ethics" and nature recording / music / media.
Just to make up my mind.
It has been like playing chess with oneself. As soon as you find an
argument for something, you also see the argument against it. So I
agree with you, it feels like having to write a book, which very few
are going to read.
When chatting with people about it, it seems to be quite a big
difference between Americans and Europeans. What is total fraud for a
European, is not very upsetting to an American.
Also, what is seen as a fraud to a person over 50, seems to be
natural to a person under 30.
This is an example of a few questions that I have asked "people": A
battery manufacturer (A) sells a 3,6v/100 mAh battery, which can be
measured as the true value. His competitor, though, announces the
same battery as 3,6v but 150mAh, which is a lie. Question: Does this
justify that manufacturer (A) also starts lying and announces his
battery as 3,6v 200 mAh?
People my age seem at least to be a bit stressed by the question,
while young people say "yes, what else can he do?"
Well, those are my "findings" - not science, but enough convincing for me.
When it comes to making SoundScapes, I cannot at all identify with a
photographer or a musician. My only and biggest creative effort, I
think, is that I have selected the equipment and spent time putting
it somewhere. I might not even be there, and the time and place is
mostly chosen more or less by practical reasons like "it=B4s a quiet
place" or "you can get there by car". Apart from such matters, and
selecting the track, - I don't see that I have any "creative"
contribution into the recording.
(I DO admit that a FEW people are working differently! They are very
talented. But they are... few.)
Using a parabol is different, as there is a great difference between
the recordings a "average" client is doing his first birding season
and his next! I cannot pinpoint what it is, but I am sure that it
has to do with "not doing the same mistakes" or something. Clients
who have been working with a Telinga for a long time, absolutely make
more really "good" recordings than the beginner! So, using a parabol
is more a "creative" issue than placing a stereo mike somewhere, I would sa=
y.
But the topic was "manipulation" vs. "purism," which cannot include
the use of parabols, as there is no "purism" in such recordings
anyway, even though they might sound "nice".
My question was: Do I want my new born grand child to listen to my
recordings in twenty years from now, PRESUMING that there is a lot of
filtering done, even removing a high way?
No, I don=B4t.
Do I want him to hear my "best" raven passing by, saying "wow, that
was a great mixing job!"
No. I Don't. I want him to hear, as real as possible, what I could
hear with my own ears, trusting his ears and PRESUMING that no
manipulation was done!
Will that happen? Probably not...
Klas.
At 01:54 2012-11-08, you wrote:
>Thanks, Klas.
>I look forward to reading your thoughts.
>Keith
>
>
>On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 5:39 PM, Klas Strandberg <> wrote=
:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > Hi Keith,
> >
> > Thanks for your warmhearted greetings.
> >
> > I have printed out your mail and will read it in bed tonight.
> > And consider as carefully as I am able to.
> > And reply.
> >
> > Klas.
> >
> > (PS: changed the subject line. I mixed it up in the first place.)
> >
> > At 23:54 2012-11-07, you wrote:
> > >Klas, you're ahead by 5 grandchildren. My first arrived in August :D
> > >
> > >"Do "we" want that?"
> > >I'm not sure the choice is "ours".
> > >
> > >I've wanted to respond to your recent posts in a fullsome and heartfel=
t
> > >manner, but have struggled to find a way without writing a book. I do =
feel
> > >your angst. While nature recording is new to me (and far more difficul=
t
> > >than I'd ever imagined), natural recording is something I've struggled
> > with
> > >much of my life as a freelance musician. As a player, this struggle fi=
rst
> > >confronted me in dealing with the fundamental dishonesty of the overdu=
b.
> > >It's something that no player wants to do -at least in the sense of fi=
xing
> > >something - but it also has tremendous creative potential.
> > >
> > >What to do? Even in the event of fixing a flawed improv idea or a bad
> > >performance, the end result is still something that I created/performe=
d
> > >(and is thus, bona fide?). I might add that the problem is worse when =
your
> > >rotten note is the only wart on a performance that included several ot=
her
> > >players who just gave the performance of a lifetime;)
> > >
> > >As I've grown older, I've been apt to take a more existential attitude
> > >toward problems like this:
> > >Who am I here to serve? Hopefully, in my case it's the Muse. Can I mak=
e a
> > >musical point clearer with an overdub? Perhaps. Do I need to redo the
> > whole
> > >piece from scratch, just to prove that I can? Hmm. Wouldn't that just =
be
> > >serving my ego? Does using the technique lessen the musical value of t=
he
> > >end product? Not if the listener is unaware, but it still offends my s=
ense
> > >of authenticity.
> > >
> > >Classical music has taken this to insane extremes. A number of years a=
go
> > >there was an album of Paganini's 24 Caprices for Violin by a well know=
n
> > >guitarist. A friend of mine was working in the same studio a year or s=
o
> > >later and informed me that the whole thing had been expertly pasted up
> > from
> > >small fragments. I imagine the artist faced the same questions. To cle=
arly
> > >mark the album as Heavily Edited would have been suicide, even in an
> > >environment where everyone else is doing it too (stories of hundreds o=
f
> > >edits per album are legion). Perhaps he should have scrapped the proje=
ct.
> > >If he had, he would have denied all of us the chance to experience wha=
t
> > was
> > >really a very fine recording.
> > >What to do?
> > >
> > >Using photography as an analogy is limited, but perhaps useful. Even
> > >snapshooters have to contend with offending poles, wires, reflections =
and
> > >what have you. You change viewpoints, 'shop' only the worst of them, u=
se
> > >them creatively or give up the shot. But what if the subject is unique=
or
> > >rare; well worth putting up with rest of the 'noise'? How far do we go
> > with
> > >the editing? This may well change the originally held purpose of the s=
hot.
> > >Then, who are we serving? The subject/event, the story, the photo Muse=
or
> > >ourselves? I said 'limited' because the instantaneous visual and the
> > serial
> > >sound experiences are so fundamentally different. Choosing a viewpoint=
to
> > >avoid a wire seems trivial compared to dealing with an unexpected ATV =
half
> > >a mile behind you while trying to get 30 minutes of near silence.
> > >
> > >Getting back to Nature Recording, doesn't the Purpose and the Fitness =
for
> > >Purpose really tell it all? A relaxation recording might be 30 minutes=
of
> > >pristinely recorded wilderness bliss or a 20 mintue loop of Alan Ginsb=
erg
> > >going "Ommm" (if that works for anyone --I bet it would sell better).
> > Using
> > >Rx might allow an Ornithologist a 'green-screened' version of a bird c=
all
> > >in the very near future, if not today. The 5 minutes of a Pileated
> > >Woodpecker working a tree stump that I recorded a couple of weeks ago
> > won't
> > >be submitted here. It's full of city traffic, airplanes and my creepin=
g
> > >along a gravel path to get closer, but it's a thrill for me as a perso=
nal
> > >first. It suits my purpose as a lesson on what not to do, next time.
> > >
> > >I'm not trying to make the call, here. It just seems that, the way we'=
re
> > >going, the future arbiters of what's good, bad, interesting, or boring
> > >(both your grandkids and mine) are going to care a lot less about how
> > >something was done (except to copy the technique) than they will about=
the
> > >information on the bottom line.
> > >
> > >This leaves us free to serve a scene, a species of wildlife, an ambien=
ce,
> > >an idea. It doesn't stop us from simply labeling our work as Not Edite=
d,
> > >Denoised Only, something to that effect. Perhaps something like a SPAR=
S
> > >code as used on CDs might be adopted to delineate techniques used or
> > >avoided?
> > >
> > >Just my 2 cents, with all empathy and best wishes,
> > >k
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 8:20 AM, Klas Strandberg <>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > **
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > My son Jon had a boy a month ago, my sixth grandchild!
> > > > (Congrats most welcome! Thank you!)
> > > >
> > > > Do I want that boy to sit here in 20 years from now, listening to m=
y
> > > > old DAT-tapes saying "Come on, this kind of silence wasn't ever
> > > > possible around here, grand dad must have photoshopped all noise aw=
ay."
> > > > Because such a thinking is totally natural to him?
> > > >
> > > > Do "we" want that?
> > > >
> > > > Klas.
> > > >
> > > > Telinga Microphones, Botarbo,
> > > > S-748 96 Tobo, Sweden.
> > > > Phone & fax int + 295 310 01
> > > > email:
> > > > website: www.telinga.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >--
> > >Keith Smith
> > >
> > >Keith Smith Trio, Northern Lights =AD Altai Khangai - www.keithsmith.c=
a
> > >Photography - www.mymountains.ca
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >------------------------------------
> > >
> > >"While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
> > >sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie Krau=
se.
> > >
> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > Telinga Microphones, Botarbo,
> > S-748 96 Tobo, Sweden.
> > Phone & fax int + 295 310 01
> > email:
> > website: www.telinga.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>"While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
>sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie Krause.
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Telinga Microphones, Botarbo,
S-748 96 Tobo, Sweden.
Phone & fax int + 295 310 01
email:
website: www.telinga.com
|