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Re: was: What is a good nature sound recording?

Subject: Re: was: What is a good nature sound recording?
From: "Klas Strandberg" klasstrandberg
Date: Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:30 pm ((PST))
Hi Kevin!
"Deep reflections" I don't know, probably it is not cold enough, haha!

The first snow came with a blizzard about ten days ago, which is sort
of normal. Since then, the temperature has varied between -25 and
zero, and a Disney landscape has melted and got frozen again, with
all that it means of frozen hand brakes and slippery steps.

You work only with M/S, don't you? In my opinion, a M/S recording can
only be compared to other M/S recordings. Then you can never be a
"purist" anyway, as the stereo picture is manipulated, compared to
what a human head can hear.
But then, on the other hand (why is there always..?) - we get into
the replay situation with loudspeakers, where M/S might be more
"true" than an omni rig, but never as "true" as headphones and an
omni rig... and we have to write a book.

Good to hear from you, too!

Klas.



At 22:40 2012-12-15, you wrote:
>Hi Klas,
>I see nature sound recording as a creative effort similar in some
>aspects to photography.  The "soundscape" recording corresponds to
>scenic photos and the directed or parabolic recordings correspond to
>telephoto lens shots.  I have to be as talented in finding and
>"framing" my subjects with my microphones as a photographer is with
>her lenses.  Whether either I or the photographer "Photoshops" or
>alters the sounds afterwards is a matter of artistic license.
>Both the photographer and I are capturing a moment of the universe
>in an artistic way.  Neither of us are creating, ex nihilo, as the
>musician or painter does.  Nevertheless, I still see both the nature
>recordist and the photographer as creative artists.
>
>Always good to hear from you.  It must be deep winter up where you
>are, giving you time for some deep reflection.
>
>Kevin Colver
>
>
>On Dec 15, 2012, at 2:05 PM, Klas Strandberg <> wrote:
>
> > Hi Keith and others!
> >
> > So we did (at least) get some agreeing about the issue that a Telinga
> > SSM demo file should be uploaded raw and if it was filtered it
> should say so.
> > It pleases me. I agree.
> >
> > Keith, since you wrote your serious reflections to me, I have been
> > trying to look into "ethics" and nature recording / music / media.
> > Just to make up my mind.
> > It has been like playing chess with oneself. As soon as you find an
> > argument for something, you also see the argument against it. So I
> > agree with you, it feels like having to write a book, which very few
> > are going to read.
> >
> > When chatting with people about it, it seems to be quite a big
> > difference between Americans and Europeans. What is total fraud for a
> > European, is not very upsetting to an American.
> > Also, what is seen as a fraud to a person over 50, seems to be
> > natural to a person under 30.
> >
> > This is an example of a few questions that I have asked "people": A
> > battery manufacturer (A) sells a 3,6v/100 mAh battery, which can be
> > measured as the true value. His competitor, though, announces the
> > same battery as 3,6v but 150mAh, which is a lie. Question: Does this
> > justify that manufacturer (A) also starts lying and announces his
> > battery as 3,6v 200 mAh?
> > People my age seem at least to be a bit stressed by the question,
> > while young people say "yes, what else can he do?"
> > Well, those are my "findings" - not science, but enough convincing for =
me.
> >
> > When it comes to making SoundScapes, I cannot at all identify with a
> > photographer or a musician. My only and biggest creative effort, I
> > think, is that I have selected the equipment and spent time putting
> > it somewhere. I might not even be there, and the time and place is
> > mostly chosen more or less by practical reasons like "it=B4s a quiet
> > place" or "you can get there by car". Apart from such matters, and
> > selecting the track, - I don't see that I have any "creative"
> > contribution into the recording.
> > (I DO admit that a FEW people are working differently! They are very
> > talented. But they are... few.)
> >
> > Using a parabol is different, as there is a great difference between
> > the recordings a "average" client is doing his first birding season
> > and his next! I cannot pinpoint what it is, but I am sure that it
> > has to do with "not doing the same mistakes" or something. Clients
> > who have been working with a Telinga for a long time, absolutely make
> > more really "good" recordings than the beginner! So, using a parabol
> > is more a "creative" issue than placing a stereo mike somewhere,
> I would say.
> >
> > But the topic was "manipulation" vs. "purism," which cannot include
> > the use of parabols, as there is no "purism" in such recordings
> > anyway, even though they might sound "nice".
> >
> > My question was: Do I want my new born grand child to listen to my
> > recordings in twenty years from now, PRESUMING that there is a lot of
> > filtering done, even removing a high way?
> > No, I don=B4t.
> > Do I want him to hear my "best" raven passing by, saying "wow, that
> > was a great mixing job!"
> >
> > No. I Don't. I want him to hear, as real as possible, what I could
> > hear with my own ears, trusting his ears and PRESUMING that no
> > manipulation was done!
> > Will that happen? Probably not...
> >
> > Klas.
> >
> > At 01:54 2012-11-08, you wrote:
> > >Thanks, Klas.
> > >I look forward to reading your thoughts.
> > >Keith
> > >
> > >
> > >On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 5:39 PM, Klas Strandberg
> <> wrote:
> > >
> > > > **
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi Keith,
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for your warmhearted greetings.
> > > >
> > > > I have printed out your mail and will read it in bed tonight.
> > > > And consider as carefully as I am able to.
> > > > And reply.
> > > >
> > > > Klas.
> > > >
> > > > (PS: changed the subject line. I mixed it up in the first place.)
> > > >
> > > > At 23:54 2012-11-07, you wrote:
> > > > >Klas, you're ahead by 5 grandchildren. My first arrived in August =
:D
> > > > >
> > > > >"Do "we" want that?"
> > > > >I'm not sure the choice is "ours".
> > > > >
> > > > >I've wanted to respond to your recent posts in a fullsome
> and heartfelt
> > > > >manner, but have struggled to find a way without writing a
> book. I do feel
> > > > >your angst. While nature recording is new to me (and far
> more difficult
> > > > >than I'd ever imagined), natural recording is something I've strug=
gled
> > > > with
> > > > >much of my life as a freelance musician. As a player, this
> struggle first
> > > > >confronted me in dealing with the fundamental dishonesty of
> the overdub.
> > > > >It's something that no player wants to do -at least in the
> sense of fixing
> > > > >something - but it also has tremendous creative potential.
> > > > >
> > > > >What to do? Even in the event of fixing a flawed improv idea or a =
bad
> > > > >performance, the end result is still something that I
> created/performed
> > > > >(and is thus, bona fide?). I might add that the problem is
> worse when your
> > > > >rotten note is the only wart on a performance that included
> several other
> > > > >players who just gave the performance of a lifetime;)
> > > > >
> > > > >As I've grown older, I've been apt to take a more existential atti=
tude
> > > > >toward problems like this:
> > > > >Who am I here to serve? Hopefully, in my case it's the Muse.
> Can I make a
> > > > >musical point clearer with an overdub? Perhaps. Do I need to redo =
the
> > > > whole
> > > > >piece from scratch, just to prove that I can? Hmm. Wouldn't
> that just be
> > > > >serving my ego? Does using the technique lessen the musical
> value of the
> > > > >end product? Not if the listener is unaware, but it still
> offends my sense
> > > > >of authenticity.
> > > > >
> > > > >Classical music has taken this to insane extremes. A number
> of years ago
> > > > >there was an album of Paganini's 24 Caprices for Violin by a
> well known
> > > > >guitarist. A friend of mine was working in the same studio a
> year or so
> > > > >later and informed me that the whole thing had been expertly paste=
d up
> > > > from
> > > > >small fragments. I imagine the artist faced the same
> questions. To clearly
> > > > >mark the album as Heavily Edited would have been suicide, even in =
an
> > > > >environment where everyone else is doing it too (stories of
> hundreds of
> > > > >edits per album are legion). Perhaps he should have scrapped
> the project.
> > > > >If he had, he would have denied all of us the chance to
> experience what
> > > > was
> > > > >really a very fine recording.
> > > > >What to do?
> > > > >
> > > > >Using photography as an analogy is limited, but perhaps useful. Ev=
en
> > > > >snapshooters have to contend with offending poles, wires,
> reflections and
> > > > >what have you. You change viewpoints, 'shop' only the worst
> of them, use
> > > > >them creatively or give up the shot. But what if the subject
> is unique or
> > > > >rare; well worth putting up with rest of the 'noise'? How far do w=
e go
> > > > with
> > > > >the editing? This may well change the originally held
> purpose of the shot.
> > > > >Then, who are we serving? The subject/event, the story, the
> photo Muse or
> > > > >ourselves? I said 'limited' because the instantaneous visual and t=
he
> > > > serial
> > > > >sound experiences are so fundamentally different. Choosing a
> viewpoint to
> > > > >avoid a wire seems trivial compared to dealing with an
> unexpected ATV half
> > > > >a mile behind you while trying to get 30 minutes of near silence.
> > > > >
> > > > >Getting back to Nature Recording, doesn't the Purpose and
> the Fitness for
> > > > >Purpose really tell it all? A relaxation recording might be
> 30 minutes of
> > > > >pristinely recorded wilderness bliss or a 20 mintue loop of
> Alan Ginsberg
> > > > >going "Ommm" (if that works for anyone --I bet it would sell bette=
r).
> > > > Using
> > > > >Rx might allow an Ornithologist a 'green-screened' version
> of a bird call
> > > > >in the very near future, if not today. The 5 minutes of a Pileated
> > > > >Woodpecker working a tree stump that I recorded a couple of weeks =
ago
> > > > won't
> > > > >be submitted here. It's full of city traffic, airplanes and
> my creeping
> > > > >along a gravel path to get closer, but it's a thrill for me
> as a personal
> > > > >first. It suits my purpose as a lesson on what not to do, next tim=
e.
> > > > >
> > > > >I'm not trying to make the call, here. It just seems that,
> the way we're
> > > > >going, the future arbiters of what's good, bad, interesting, or bo=
ring
> > > > >(both your grandkids and mine) are going to care a lot less about =
how
> > > > >something was done (except to copy the technique) than they
> will about the
> > > > >information on the bottom line.
> > > > >
> > > > >This leaves us free to serve a scene, a species of wildlife,
> an ambience,
> > > > >an idea. It doesn't stop us from simply labeling our work as
> Not Edited,
> > > > >Denoised Only, something to that effect. Perhaps something
> like a SPARS
> > > > >code as used on CDs might be adopted to delineate techniques used =
or
> > > > >avoided?
> > > > >
> > > > >Just my 2 cents, with all empathy and best wishes,
> > > > >k
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 8:20 AM, Klas Strandberg <=
e>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > **
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My son Jon had a boy a month ago, my sixth grandchild!
> > > > > > (Congrats most welcome! Thank you!)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Do I want that boy to sit here in 20 years from now,
> listening to my
> > > > > > old DAT-tapes saying "Come on, this kind of silence wasn't ever
> > > > > > possible around here, grand dad must have photoshopped
> all noise away."
> > > > > > Because such a thinking is totally natural to him?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Do "we" want that?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Klas.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Telinga Microphones, Botarbo,
> > > > > > S-748 96 Tobo, Sweden.
> > > > > > Phone & fax int + 295 310 01
> > > > > > email: 
> > > > > > website: www.telinga.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >--
> > > > >Keith Smith
> > > > >
> > > > >Keith Smith Trio, Northern Lights =AD Altai Khangai - www.keithsmi=
th.ca
> > > > >Photography - www.mymountains.ca
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > >"While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
> > > > >sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via
> Bernie Krause.
> > > > >
> > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > Telinga Microphones, Botarbo,
> > > > S-748 96 Tobo, Sweden.
> > > > Phone & fax int + 295 310 01
> > > > email: 
> > > > website: www.telinga.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >------------------------------------
> > >
> > >"While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
> > >sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie Krau=
se.
> > >
> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > Telinga Microphones, Botarbo,
> > S-748 96 Tobo, Sweden.
> > Phone & fax int + 295 310 01
> > email: 
> > website: www.telinga.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>"While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
>sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie Krause.
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Telinga Microphones, Botarbo,
S-748 96 Tobo, Sweden.
Phone & fax int + 295 310 01
email: 
website: www.telinga.com









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