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Re: Sony PCM-M10 vs Zoom H4n best for outdoors / capturing frogs in

Subject: Re: Sony PCM-M10 vs Zoom H4n best for outdoors / capturing frogs in
From: "Avocet" madl74
Date: Wed Feb 8, 2012 2:00 pm ((PST))
Rich,

Overall, my advice is to get a starter budget system like the Sony and 
a mid range affordable mic. If you catch the recording bug, your next 
upgrade could be a low noise mixer which will get over the input 
noise, and start trying out various mic rigs which we talk about on 
this list. I use a professional SQN mixer with a Tascam DR-1 or DR-100 
which gives high quality recordings with no audible hiss on line in. 
Without the mixer, they are both a bit hissy.

I'll go along with those who advise that input noise is not the most 
important factor with budget systems. The important thing is to get 
going and learn as you record. Save your money for a good stereo pair 
and an effective windgag.

Re noise specs I'm struggling not to give a geeky answer, but I'll 
try. Manufacturer's noise figures are often very misleading so it is 
difficult to compare specs. Noise has to be measured against a stated 
norm and these norms are mainly what varies when noise figures are 
quoted to the benefit of the manufacturer.

The sound of noise also varies widely but the most disturbing with 
wildlife recording is hiss. If you can recognise the hiss from a mic 
in a very quiet location (or covered by a heap of bedclothes), you are 
doing well. Here comes the snag - you should compare different mics 
with the same recorder which is difficult if you haven't got your 
hands on them. The noise you are looking for is a persistent high 
hiss. With many practical locations there are other hiss noises like 
wind in trees, but you can learn the sound of the fundamental high 
pitched so called "thermal noise" hiss.

BTW I should have said to get a decent pair of headphones so you can 
hear what you are recording.

One spec which is useful with noise is the output level in mv/Pa and 
10mv/Pa or higher tends to swamp input stage noise more. The pre-amp 
in the mic should beat the pre-amp in the recorder. If the mic is 
hissy by itself this won't necessarily help with the end result but 
the hiss you will hear will be from the mic, not the recorder.

You can reduce recorded hiss without affecting the overall sound using 
Audacity and if you need more details, I do this with some of my quiet 
recordings taken with MKH mics and a professional mixer with very low 
input noise.

A parabola is not a mic, sorry to be pedantic. You put a conventional 
mic into a parabolic dish and you get three benefits. 1) An increase 
in level at birdsong frequencies, mainly the higher kilohertz which 
swamps the various system hiss noises. 2) This effect happens in a 
narrow angle, leaving other directions at a lower level. 3) Sounds 
from behind are baffled off. These effects make the birds sound much 
closer, which is very handy if they are up high trees.

The snags with a parabola are its bulk and it needs a good stand and 
it can blow over easily. It is also basically mono and if you widen 
its imaging areas for stereo you lose its initial benefits.

David

David Brinicombe
North Devon, UK
Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum - Ambrose Bierce











"While a picture is worth a thousand words, a 
sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie Krause.



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