omichalis
Date: Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:29 pm ((PDT))
@ John
> The maths
> W =3D Front + Back cardioid
> X and Y, will depend on how you orientate the mic. But will be:--
> Front - Back cardioid
> The Fig8 mic
this is exactly my point - I do not think you will get the same results as =
you would with 4 cardiods even if you do the right math - it may be right i=
n theory, but the theory makes some assumptions
take for example the XY vs MS paradigm, in theory you can just convert betw=
een the two, However in actual practice if you record in the first place wi=
th a MS mic and you compare it with a XY pair converted to MS, you will not=
get the same results. This not only due to off-axis colorization etc, but =
also due to the fact that the XY do not point @ the centre and thus will gi=
ve a different audio image
@ Martyn
> The SCHOEPS M DMS matrix is, in all respects, the simplest and most elega=
nt way to obtain surround signals.
indeed
On 22 Jul 2011, at 03:57, Martyn Stewart wrote:
> What I originally bought was a microphone to work in the field for 5.1 su=
rround, The soundfield microphone gave this option and i manipulated the fi=
les in post production. However, the soundfield system was incredibly noisy=
in quiet environments, I compared the 2 mics (double MS) because they were=
the ones I decided to buy for the above reasons.
> Both microphone systems are capable of being converted for my needs, I to=
tally realize that both microphones perform differently to each other but w=
ith their excellent plugins (Soundfield $500 and schoeps free) you can basi=
cally convert both patterns to sound the same in a 5.1 environment.
> I also bought with the Schoeps the excellent M DMS (quote from website) T=
he SCHOEPS M DMS matrix is, in all respects, the simplest and most elegant =
way to obtain surround signals. It is a small, sturdy box with high-quality=
transformers forming a passive decoder matrix. Microphone signals are conv=
erted directly into 5.0 L / R / C / LS / RS surround signals. A second, swi=
tchable mode supplies four signals with no center-channel output.
> The matrix parameters have been chosen so that the resulting signals corr=
espond to an optimal arrangement while avoiding unwanted artifacts. read mo=
re here
>
> The comparison i made regarding the two microphones was meant to be from =
my own personal experience The schoeps Double MS system is a far better nat=
ure microphone than the noisy soundfield, however, the folks from soundfiel=
d worked with me tirelessly to get me to where i needed to be but it was no=
t the microphone system for me. The self noise being extremely unacceptable=
.
> However, I must state that i have used a double MS system in the field fo=
r many years using 2 mkh-40's with the mkh-30 but the schoeps housing and b=
limp portability and convenience to me is worth paying for, how they perfor=
m in humid environments is another story....
>
> Martyn
> ------------------------------------------------
> Martyn Stewart
> www.naturesound.org
> www.soundofcritters.com
>
> 425-898-0462
> -------------------------------------------------
> Make every garden a wildlife habitat
>
> On Jul 21, 2011, at 3:18 PM, Marinos Koutsomichalis wrote:
>
> > I' ve worked extensively with the ST-250 but not with the schoeps doubl=
e MS, however I' d like to express some thoughts
> >
> > the schoeps are supposed to be top-notch microphones (and as I can tell=
from a couple of recordings I heard once - they ARE top-notch). I have the=
impression that the soundfield sounds a bit artificial if compared with th=
e schoeps, but my experience is very limited to jump into conclusions
> >
> > But I find the comparison totally misleading, as the two systems are co=
mpletely different in terms of objective and potential. The schoepps system=
deliver double MS while the soundfield is an ambisonics mike. It can deliv=
er b-format out-of-the-box, while the schoeps just cannot.
> >
> > so what exactly are we comparing ?
> >
> > a soundfield recording can be decoded for a full-sphere rig of say 16 s=
peakers resulting in a 3d immersive sound experience. While it is possible =
to do some alchemy and have a doubleMS recording played back accordingly, I=
doubt whether the result would be of equal interest (at least in terms of =
faithful localization)
> >
> > a doubleMS rig is in essence 2-dimensional while soundfield is a 3-dime=
nsional mike
> >
> > So if you want to work with ambisonic rigs, then a doubleMS system is n=
o good at all.. On the other hand, somebody into the film industry would no=
rmally prefer doubleMS (I guess) over b-format for reasons of standardizati=
on.
> >
> > m
> >
> > On 22 Jul 2011, at 00:52, emil klotzsch wrote:
> >
> > > what do you mean with "new" double ms system. do you mean that you
> > > have bought it recently or that schoeps has a new one?
> > > i did not know they changed anything with their double ms system...
> > >
> > > and secondly, don=B4t you had ever trouble with the relative high noi=
se
> > > of the schoeps eight figure? (18dba..)
> > > just curious how other recordists handle that..
> > >
> > >
> > > Am 18.07.2011 um 07:54 schrieb Martyn Stewart:
> > >
> > >> http://naturesound.org/?p=3D579
> > >>
> > >> This is a sample from the new Schoeps Double MS system.
> > >> Recorded today (17th July) you can hear the difference between a
> > >> good microphone system in a quiet environment compared to the B-
> > >> Format microphone system of the new ST450 soundfield microphone
> > >> found here..
> > >> This is a 5 minute soundscape of a quiet environment found at
> > >> Stossel creek, Washington. info found below.
> > >> Location: stossel creek
> > >> Date: 2011-07-17
> > >> Time: 18:00
> > >> State: WA
> > >> Description: evening at stossel creek
> > >> Habitat: ponds/coniferous
> > >> VoxType: evening
> > >> Category: soundscape
> > >> Recorder: SD 788t
> > >> Mics: schoeps double MS
> > >> Sample rate: 48k 24 bit
> > >> Microphone pattern: Double MS stereo-4 channel
> > >> Take# 1
> > >> Anthrophony: airplane/traffic/04:03 passing truck/6:37 plane/7:50
> > >> plane/14:00 plane/14:49 passing truck/16:20 plane/18:15 plane/26:30=
> > >> plane/
> > >> Geophony: light rain/
> > >> Biophony: song sparrow/swainsons thrush/common yellowthroat/American=
> > >> robin/8:50 swainsons thrush song/10:40 unknown trill/11:04 high
> > >> pitched robin calls/15:39 common yellowthroat song/25:20 Douglas
> > >> squirrel/26:10 red winged blackbird chips/
> > >> Weather: overcast
> > >> Temp: 58f
> > >> Humidity: 87%
> > >> Wind: calm
> > >> GPS:
> > >> Recordist: Martyn Stewart
> > >> Notes: inserted -30 db tone at beginning of the recording/ Mic
> > >> suspension with Rycote windjammer and gitzo tripod/monitored without=
> > >> headphones/
> > >> Facebook
> > >> NOTE
> > >> If you would like to download this track for free, please go to this=
> > >> link and download the original Double MS recording in 4 channels
> > >>
> > >> Martyn
> > >> ------------------------------------------------
> > >> Martyn Stewart
> > >> www.naturesound.org
> > >> www.soundofcritters.com
> > >>
> > >> 425-898-0462
> > >> -------------------------------------------------
> > >> Make every garden a wildlife habitat
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > "While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
> > > sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie Kra=
use.
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> >
> >
>
>
>
--
Marinos Koutsomichalis
Music Research Center, University of York
Contemporary Music Research Centre (CMRC)
Faculty of Music Technology & Acoustics - TEI of Crete
www.marinoskoutsomichalis.com
www.agxivatein.com
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