Hey everyone!
Thank you so much for all your responses so far (especially you two, Rob an=
d Sean - so much info!).
Well - Sony must have done something right because just about everyone is r=
ecommending the Sony PCM-M10. I will probably just order one tomorrow.
So now I'm stuck selecting a pair of microphones. I am taking all of your =
suggestions into account and I think I have a lot more learning to do.
I like the Sound Professionals suggestion and it just might be what I'm loo=
king for ... for now. Apparently Sony only provides ~3v of Plug-In Power -=
should I get one of those little 9v battery supplies for whatever micropho=
ne I buy?
I'm concerned about a car or bus completely overwhelming my microphones in =
somewhat loud street environments. From what I've learned, that situation =
is helped by some kind of "pad" or attenuator cable and/or a battery supply=
giving more power to the microphones to avoid clipping. Am I going in the=
right direction here?
Rob - thank you for all your hard work and your verbosity. However, I'm no=
t sure I can really justify buying Telinga's offerings at the moment.
At the same time, I wonder if there is some nice place in between the Sound=
Professionals' ~US$80 offering and Telinga's ~US$750+ offering! Does anyo=
ne have anything favorable to say about Core Audio's ~US$250 offering? How=
about products from Microphone Madness?:
http://microphonemadness.com/products/mmhlsomsenmi.htm
I haven't read any real reviews of their products.
I have heard nothing but good stuff about Sonic Studios' products but jeeee=
eeeez ... I can't afford those either.
So here's my point - maybe Sound Professionals' US$80 products are good, bu=
t if I can get anything substantially better for ~US250 I'll totally do it.
And again - folks - thank you for sharing your advice and expertise. I'm s=
ure newbies post in here for this kind of advice all the time and yet you h=
ave been so patient with me. I can't wait to make some recordings for you =
all to listen to.
-Christian
p.s. Can anyone point me to a good primer on learning what you guys are ta=
lking about in terms of dB's? I'm trying to learn how to distinguish betwe=
en microphones and I can't decipher all the values. I think I have a prett=
y good idea about what a noise floor is and what self-noise is ... but afte=
r that I don't really know what to look for.
p.p.s. It's ~3am - time for bed
--- In Rob Danielson <> wrote:
>
> At 3:14 PM +0000 5/16/10, Sean wrote:
> >
> >
> >I agree with Rob, the m10 would be the wisest
> >investment for your purposes. the battery life
> >is AMAZING and it has four gigs built in. check
> >out this cool feature. say you get a 16 gig
> >MICRO sd card and when its full, the recorder
> >will switch over to the internal memory and
> >start recording on that. with 20 gigs, you won't
> >have to worry about anything.
> >record in 24/48 so you can have more headroom.
> >
> >for mics, I recommend keeping it inexpensive and
> >going with a pair of $80 binaural mics:
> ><http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-TFB-2>http://www=
.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-TFB-2
>
> Hi Sean--
>
> An insertion in the long shot that it does matter :-),..
>
> Should "readteamwins" be serious about recording
> in quiet, natural environments, there would be
> significant difference in noise, or "hiss"
> performance between the (most likely) WM-61A
> capsules in the SP-TFB-2 mics (rated with
> self-noise at 32dB[A]) and the Telingas at
> 14-15dB(A). Each dB "up" roughly computes to one,
> easily audible step up in "hiss." Its true that
> one can improve the stereo imaging of the
> built-in mics by using external mics in a number
> of DIY arrays, but note that even the built-in
> mics in the M10 have considerably less hiss than
> WM-61A's, ~20dB(A).
>
> The Telinga "clip-on" mics are more expensive
> but the improvement in noise performance in quiet
> settings is striking. Here's high gain noise
> performance comparison starting with a pair of
> EM-23 Telingas [also rated at 14dB(A)] next to
> the noisier mics including the WM-61A:
> http://tinyurl.com/ycz3rwq The second mics in the
> test, WL183's have about the same amount of
> self-noise as the M10's. We often use a
> reference value of a maximum of 16dB(A)
> self-noise for mics to be used to record ambience
> and quieter sound sources. These are situations
> when one finds the need to turn-up the record
> gain to 3/4 level or more.
>
> Mic self-noise and compatible recorder input
> noise performance can be very crucial factors to
> consider when planning long-term investments.
> There are many people do find WM-61A's "great"
> for years until they hear mics with very low
> self-noise and realize how much obscuring hiss
> and fizzy haze there is in all of their precious,
> quiet location recordings.
>
> On the flip side, if one is _only_ going to
> record train station and mostly urban ambience
> and loud effects, the WM-61A's will work
> beautifully because lower gain settings are
> typical. These recorders are made for these
> situations, along with robust music and voice.
> Yes, their noisy mics sound very crusty and hissy
> when you raise the gain, but the self-noise in
> these mics and mics like the WM-61A's, "buries"
> the noisy input stages in the recorders anyway.
> High quality must be attained in both mic and
> recorder pre noise performance to be enjoyed.
>
> Recorders with around -122 to 124dBu(A weighted)
> and less input noise (a smaller, negative number)
> will not contribute a great deal of additional
> noise when used with quieter mics. That's why an
> M10 is a better investment if low-noise mics are
> in one's future. Raimund has _measured_ and
> produced this great chart for us:
> http://www.avisoft.com/recordertests.htm
>
> These days, there's a lot of interest in a pocket
> recorder that one can use with tiny external mics
> that are optimized for highest quality, low-noise
> capturing in all settings. Such mics aren't
> available; the Sony D-50 is close. The "Clip-On"
> Telingas are still too noisy for the most
> demanding applications, but they are one of the
> very best "small mic" compromises to consider.
>
> With larger mics there are many fantastic
> options, but, as "readteamwins" suggests, then
> one has to look like one actually is serious,..
> ;-) Rob D.
>
>
> >Plenty of people have been satisfied with them
> >so I think you will too. I would personally
> >recommend the high sensitivity and if the sounds
> >get too loud, you can drop the levels down on
> >the m10.
> >
> >The sony m10 is $270; mics are $80; get a 16 gig
> >micro sd card for about $40; a couple pairs of
> >AA and you're set!
> >
> >Just remember, the more you record--the more
> >you'll have to edit and weed out. Just because
> >it is free to record doesn't mean it HAS to be
> >recorded. ;)
> >
> >let us know what you decide!
> >
> >sean
> >
> >--- In
> ><naturerecordists%40yahoogroups.com>=
com,
> >"redteamwins" <redteamwins@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hey folks - this is a pretty great group you
> >>guys have got here. I've listened to many of
> >>your recordings and they're amazing. I feel
> >>like I've been transported to other places!
> >>
> >> I know that this group mainly deals with
> >>nature recordings but I've been looking for
> >>information on field recording specifically
> >>related to =85 capturing environments =85 and not
> >>necessarily just birdsong and nature for a
> >>while. That is - perhaps recordings indoors and
> >>urban environments. Of course I would love to
> >>capture outdoorsy sounds, too, but I feel that
> >>what you guys do takes much more expensive gear
> >>that I can afford ... at this time! I'll work
> >>up to it!
> >>
> >> So - here's my question:
> >>
> >> ***
> >> Can you guys help me select a suitable recorder and microphones, plea=
se?
> >> ***
> >>
> >> I've been trying to come up with enough
> >>recreational funds to purchase an audio
> >>recorder and microphones for years now. I've
> >>been blessed this year with some extra cash so
> >>the time has finally come. Thankfully, there
> >>are many more devices out on the market than
> >>there were in the days when Minidisc was king =85
> >>or at least royalty of some kind.
> >>
> >> I am taking a trip to a few countries in
> >>Eastern Europe this summer and I would like to
> >>be able to capture plenty of sounds while I'm
> >>there. Basically, I would like to capture the
> >>sounds of a public environment, like, let's say
> >>a train station or public square. Also, I would
> >>like to have the option to record individual
> >>interesting sounds - like machinery or insects
> >>or a door creaking or a particular car starting
> >>or a conversation or something.
> >>
> >> I am looking for a recorder that is small (if
> >>the device and microphones are too big I'm
> >>afraid I'll be less likely to use them), that
> >>doesn't hiss when I'm recording very quiet
> >>environments (probably my most important
> >>concern right there), and that is designed well
> >>- that is, it's easy to use and won't break or
> >>be a pain (I'm pretty set on having a dial for
> >>input level).
> >>
> >> I'm also interested in buying a quality
> >>microphone. This might be a tough issue because
> >>I've never really owned a good one ever. I used
> >>to have a minidisc recorder back in the day and
> >>bad microphones that I used to try and record
> >>sounds with. Horrible, horrible results. Also,
> >>I have no idea how to properly go about
> >>recording sound in public.
> >>
> >> I know a fair bit about sound but I'm not a
> >>total master like you guys so you can go ahead
> >>and talk about decibels and roll-off, etc and I
> >>will nod and take notes.
> >>
> >> Should I get a pair of binaural microphones so
> >>I can record discretely? Do I really need to
> >>get a recorder with XLR inputs? Is it possible
> >>to not totally stand out in public with a big
> >>black microphone in my hand or on a pole or
> >>something? Can I have a set of binaural
> >>microphones for "street" recording and maybe a
> >>handheld microphone for recording individual
> >>sounds like a door creaking or machinery or a
> >>bush filled with strange bugs?
> >>
> >> Total, I'm willing to spend =85 oh, about
> >>US$700-US$800 or a little more. Is this
> >>realistic? I'm in Los Angeles, California, USA.
> >>
> >> I've been considering the Tascam DR-100, Sony PCM-M10, Olympus LM11.
> >> The Marantz PMD 661 looks totally awesome but
> >>it might be too big. Though, if it's truly
> >>awesome I would actually buy it.
> >>
> >> I don't know about any particular models of microphones.
> >>
> > > I appreciate any advice you guys are willing
> >to give me. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
> >>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
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