At 3:14 PM +0000 5/16/10, Sean wrote:
>
>
>I agree with Rob, the m10 would be the wisest
>investment for your purposes. the battery life
>is AMAZING and it has four gigs built in. check
>out this cool feature. say you get a 16 gig
>MICRO sd card and when its full, the recorder
>will switch over to the internal memory and
>start recording on that. with 20 gigs, you won't
>have to worry about anything.
>record in 24/48 so you can have more headroom.
>
>for mics, I recommend keeping it inexpensive and
>going with a pair of $80 binaural mics:
><http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-TFB-2>http://www.s=
oundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-TFB-2
Hi Sean--
An insertion in the long shot that it does matter :-),..
Should "readteamwins" be serious about recording
in quiet, natural environments, there would be
significant difference in noise, or "hiss"
performance between the (most likely) WM-61A
capsules in the SP-TFB-2 mics (rated with
self-noise at 32dB[A]) and the Telingas at
14-15dB(A). Each dB "up" roughly computes to one,
easily audible step up in "hiss." Its true that
one can improve the stereo imaging of the
built-in mics by using external mics in a number
of DIY arrays, but note that even the built-in
mics in the M10 have considerably less hiss than
WM-61A's, ~20dB(A).
The Telinga "clip-on" mics are more expensive
but the improvement in noise performance in quiet
settings is striking. Here's high gain noise
performance comparison starting with a pair of
EM-23 Telingas [also rated at 14dB(A)] next to
the noisier mics including the WM-61A:
http://tinyurl.com/ycz3rwq The second mics in the
test, WL183's have about the same amount of
self-noise as the M10's. We often use a
reference value of a maximum of 16dB(A)
self-noise for mics to be used to record ambience
and quieter sound sources. These are situations
when one finds the need to turn-up the record
gain to 3/4 level or more.
Mic self-noise and compatible recorder input
noise performance can be very crucial factors to
consider when planning long-term investments.
There are many people do find WM-61A's "great"
for years until they hear mics with very low
self-noise and realize how much obscuring hiss
and fizzy haze there is in all of their precious,
quiet location recordings.
On the flip side, if one is _only_ going to
record train station and mostly urban ambience
and loud effects, the WM-61A's will work
beautifully because lower gain settings are
typical. These recorders are made for these
situations, along with robust music and voice.
Yes, their noisy mics sound very crusty and hissy
when you raise the gain, but the self-noise in
these mics and mics like the WM-61A's, "buries"
the noisy input stages in the recorders anyway.
High quality must be attained in both mic and
recorder pre noise performance to be enjoyed.
Recorders with around -122 to 124dBu(A weighted)
and less input noise (a smaller, negative number)
will not contribute a great deal of additional
noise when used with quieter mics. That's why an
M10 is a better investment if low-noise mics are
in one's future. Raimund has _measured_ and
produced this great chart for us:
http://www.avisoft.com/recordertests.htm
These days, there's a lot of interest in a pocket
recorder that one can use with tiny external mics
that are optimized for highest quality, low-noise
capturing in all settings. Such mics aren't
available; the Sony D-50 is close. The "Clip-On"
Telingas are still too noisy for the most
demanding applications, but they are one of the
very best "small mic" compromises to consider.
With larger mics there are many fantastic
options, but, as "readteamwins" suggests, then
one has to look like one actually is serious,..
;-) Rob D.
>Plenty of people have been satisfied with them
>so I think you will too. I would personally
>recommend the high sensitivity and if the sounds
>get too loud, you can drop the levels down on
>the m10.
>
>The sony m10 is $270; mics are $80; get a 16 gig
>micro sd card for about $40; a couple pairs of
>AA and you're set!
>
>Just remember, the more you record--the more
>you'll have to edit and weed out. Just because
>it is free to record doesn't mean it HAS to be
>recorded. ;)
>
>let us know what you decide!
>
>sean
>
>--- In
><naturerecordists%40yahoogroups.com>=
m,
>"redteamwins" <> wrote:
>>
>> Hey folks - this is a pretty great group you
>>guys have got here. I've listened to many of
>>your recordings and they're amazing. I feel
>>like I've been transported to other places!
>>
>> I know that this group mainly deals with
>>nature recordings but I've been looking for
>>information on field recording specifically
>>related to =85 capturing environments =85 and not
>>necessarily just birdsong and nature for a
>>while. That is - perhaps recordings indoors and
>>urban environments. Of course I would love to
>>capture outdoorsy sounds, too, but I feel that
>>what you guys do takes much more expensive gear
>>that I can afford ... at this time! I'll work
>>up to it!
>>
>> So - here's my question:
>>
>> ***
>> Can you guys help me select a suitable recorder and microphones, please=
?
>> ***
>>
>> I've been trying to come up with enough
>>recreational funds to purchase an audio
>>recorder and microphones for years now. I've
>>been blessed this year with some extra cash so
>>the time has finally come. Thankfully, there
>>are many more devices out on the market than
>>there were in the days when Minidisc was king =85
>>or at least royalty of some kind.
>>
>> I am taking a trip to a few countries in
>>Eastern Europe this summer and I would like to
>>be able to capture plenty of sounds while I'm
>>there. Basically, I would like to capture the
>>sounds of a public environment, like, let's say
>>a train station or public square. Also, I would
>>like to have the option to record individual
>>interesting sounds - like machinery or insects
>>or a door creaking or a particular car starting
>>or a conversation or something.
>>
>> I am looking for a recorder that is small (if
>>the device and microphones are too big I'm
>>afraid I'll be less likely to use them), that
>>doesn't hiss when I'm recording very quiet
>>environments (probably my most important
>>concern right there), and that is designed well
>>- that is, it's easy to use and won't break or
>>be a pain (I'm pretty set on having a dial for
>>input level).
>>
>> I'm also interested in buying a quality
>>microphone. This might be a tough issue because
>>I've never really owned a good one ever. I used
>>to have a minidisc recorder back in the day and
>>bad microphones that I used to try and record
>>sounds with. Horrible, horrible results. Also,
>>I have no idea how to properly go about
>>recording sound in public.
>>
>> I know a fair bit about sound but I'm not a
>>total master like you guys so you can go ahead
>>and talk about decibels and roll-off, etc and I
>>will nod and take notes.
>>
>> Should I get a pair of binaural microphones so
>>I can record discretely? Do I really need to
>>get a recorder with XLR inputs? Is it possible
>>to not totally stand out in public with a big
>>black microphone in my hand or on a pole or
>>something? Can I have a set of binaural
>>microphones for "street" recording and maybe a
>>handheld microphone for recording individual
>>sounds like a door creaking or machinery or a
>>bush filled with strange bugs?
>>
>> Total, I'm willing to spend =85 oh, about
>>US$700-US$800 or a little more. Is this
>>realistic? I'm in Los Angeles, California, USA.
>>
>> I've been considering the Tascam DR-100, Sony PCM-M10, Olympus LM11.
>> The Marantz PMD 661 looks totally awesome but
>>it might be too big. Though, if it's truly
>>awesome I would actually buy it.
>>
>> I don't know about any particular models of microphones.
>>
> > I appreciate any advice you guys are willing
>to give me. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
>>
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