Hi Rob, Mike,
The Clip On=C2=B4s need the PIP voltage of Olympus and Zoom. MD's, for
example, don=C2=B4t provide enough.
I don't know about other models.
They are not intended to run with XLR's and phantom power. This is a
"mini" combo, to be used when even XLR's are too bulky and heavy.
For the ones who want a DIY battery powering, I'd be happy to
provide a diagram. A female 3,5 mm stereo input, two resistors, two
condensors and a battery clip is all that is needed.
Klas
At 21:36 2010-03-27, you wrote:
>At 9:59 AM -0700 3/27/10, Mike Wall wrote:
> >
> >
> >Rob,
> >Thanks for this analysis. I love the video synced with the audio.
> >Quite illustrative.
>
>Its a "video" with only one frame made from a screen-shot of the DAW
>editing window that I paste into the sound file using QuickTime. Very
>easy. The time line cursor sync's well when the movie is played with
>QuickTime Player but can get off with other movie players.
>
> >I am already thinking about possible upgrade options from the LS-10
> >to another portable recorder with better noise performance (and less
> >intrinsic LF roll-off) with a beefy enough PIP circuit to complement
> >these new mics.
>
>Klas would know about the PIP requirements. If the clip-on mics are
>in the neighborhood of 14dB(A) self-noise, a recorder that Raimund
>tested -122dBU or quieter would allow the mics to shine:
>
>from: http://www.avisoft.com/recordertests.htm
>SONY PCM-D50 -126dBu
>Marantz PMD661 -125dBu
>SONY Hi-MD MZ-RH1 -124dBu (<2 volts PIP)
>SONY PCM-M10 -122dBu
> =3D =3D =3D =3D
>Edirol R-09HR (MIC Gain H) -118dBu
>
>If you think you'll ever want to use the Clip-ons with your SD722,
>you could power them from the 722's phantom with a couple of Shure
>MX1BP's or something similar. Then you could test a "Clip-on" beside
>your mkh40 [12dB(A) self-noise] on your 722 to see if investing in
>another, quieter hand-held recorder make sense.
>
>I see that the MX1BP phantom power converters (mis-named, "preamps")
>have been discontinued but a few vendors seem to have some in stock.
>I remember there was considerable discussion on the list about
>phantom power converters for electret mics http://tinyurl.com/yjr4ufr
>but I don't remember if we confirmed that other units worked or not.
>I think the MX1BP outputs 9 volts, best to run that past Klas. Rob D.
>
>
> >I will certainly share any interesting clips that I am able to
> >record during our trip next week, etc.
> >Again - thanks for taking the time to do this,
> >Mike
> >
> >--- On Fri, 3/26/10, Rob Danielson
> ><<type%40uwm.edu>> wrote:
> >
> >From: Rob Danielson <<type%40uwm.edu>>
> >Subject: Re: [Nature Recordists] Suburban Soundscape and New
> Telinga Clip-Ons
> >To:
> ><naturerecordists%40yahoogroups.com>=
com
> >Date: Friday, March 26, 2010, 12:48 AM
> >
> >
> >
> >Hi Mike--
> >Thanks for taking time to share your comparisons with us. To study
> >them further, I took your quiet studio clips:
> >
> >Telinga Clip-On Mics -> LS-10 (3.5mm mic input)
> >and
> >MKH40-30 -> 722
> >
> >and matched them two ways: (1) without any EQ using RMS and (2) with
> >Low Hz Roll-Off (200 Hz 12dB/Octave) to account for the difference in
> >low-end responses and matched the room tone perceptually.
> >
> >Then I took clips from urban ambience and again used Low Hz Roll-Off
> >(200 Hz 12dB/Octave) on both to account for the difference in low-end
> >response and matched them with RMS.
> >
> >Below is a link to a QuickTime comparison movie for viewing with
> >QuickTime or MPEG Streamclip (Free, cross-platform
> ><http://www.squared5>http://www.squared5 .com/)
> >
> ><http://tinyurl.>http://tinyurl. com/yewuxwe (13 mb QuickTime movie,
> >download only)
> >
> >A couple of things stand out to me:
> >
> >One, the significant difference in noise performance one would
> >realize using the Telinga Clip-On -> LS-10 combination in a robust
> >setting like the urban one you provided compared to a much quieter
> >one where a lot of recorder gain is needed.
> >
> >Two, we can't tell from this comparison how much of the noise stems
> >from the Telinga mic and how much stems from the LS-10's mic pre. I
> >do note that the noise does seems to be evenly spread across and low
> >into the audio spectrum which we've seen with the LS-10's mic pre.
> >(Sonogram of the first four clips with the Telinga->LS- 10 combo in
> >the middle: <http://tinyurl.>http://tinyurl. com/ygktnr7 )
> >
> >Someone with a M10, D50, PMD620 or Hi-MD recorder and the new
> >Telingas should be able to give us a sense of the self-noise
> >performance of Klas' new mics by making a comparison like yours and
> >running the low-noise reference mics on portable phantom power supply
> >and the Telingas on PIP.
> >
> >Thanks again for sharing your explorations. Rob D.
> >
> >=3D =3D =3D
> >
> >At 7:17 PM +0000 3/24/10, walunit wrote:
> >>Hi folks,
> >>
> >>I received a set of Klas's new Telinga Clip-On omnis yesterday and
> >>tried a few experiments and compared a couple of configurations with
> >>my MKH M-S rig. Pardon the long post.
> >>
> >>First, I make no technical conclusions from these tests. I'm posting
> >>in the hopes that this is useful to the more technically inclined.
> >>Second, and on a more subjective note, these do not sound like
> >>"little" mics to me. I am pretty amazed at the Telinga + LS-10
> >>combo. I was seeking a reasonably priced, portable way to get into a
> >>fresh perspective in my soundscape recordings. With these omnis I
> >>can now start to experiment with various boundary techniques, etc.
> >>They sound great to my ears! I plan to take both rigs to the ocean
> >>next week and can share some more comparisons, etc., from that trip.
> >>
> >>Notes:
> >>The two setups are:
> >>1) Olympus LS-10 + Telinga Clip-Ons
> >>2) SD 722 + Sennheiser MKH 30/40 M-S mic setup
> >>
> >>All files were recorded 44.1 kHz and 24-bit. Both systems were set
> >>"flat" except whatever intrinsic filtering they may contain. The
> >>samples are all encoded to 256 kbps mp3 using Sound Forge 8.
> >>Recordings were made north of Kirkland, WA, USA at around 7:00 am on
> >>March 24, 2010.
> >>
> >>The suburban soundscape is dominated by the roar of a distant
> >>highway as well as planes, etc. I hope these experiments are still
> >>helpful in some way. I tried to get the gain structures close while
> >>recording but ended up adding 7.0 dB of gain (in SF) to the 722+MKH
> >>rig to make the background WHOOSH approximately match to my ears
> >>(the metering on the LS-10 is not fantastic for this but I could
> >>have done better with a better noise/reference source). The 722 gain
> >>was set to display +61.8dB of gain. This is higher than I normally
> >>run the gain and likely into the range where the 722 gain display
> >>seems less accurate. I used the 722's internal M-S decoder with M-S
> >>set to the mid "*" position. The LS-10 gain was set to approximately
> >>"1.5" on the control. The LS-10 mic sense was set to "HIGH" and low
> >>cut was set to "OFF."
> >>
> >>In this first test I have the Telingas clipped to my Sennheiser HD
> >>280 Pro headphones. Here's a pic:
> >><<http://mikewallmusi>http://mikewallmusi c.com/MKHandTeli
> >>ngaOmnis/ IMG_4207. jpg><http://mikewallmusi>http://mikewallmusi
> >>c.com/MKHandTeli ngaOmnis/ IMG_4207. jpg
> >>
> >>I guess Klas will need a different marketing model. The mics are
> >>about 10 cm from my head and in a plane about 5 cm below the top of
> >>my head. The elements are pointing away from my head. There was very
> >>little thought regarding this choice of mic location! The clips just
> >>happen to hold very securely to my headphones in this position.
> >>Audio:
> >>Telingas:
> >><<http://mikewallmusi>http://mikewallmusi c.com/MKHandTeli
> >>ngaOmnis/ LS100059_
> >>edit.mp3><http://mikewallmusi>http://mikewallmusi c.com/MKHandTeli
> >>ngaOmnis/ LS100059_ edit.mp3
> >>MKH:
> >><<http://mikewallmusi>http://mikewallmusi c.com/MKHandTeli
> >>ngaOmnis/ T158_edit+
> >>7dB.mp3><http://mikewallmusi>http://mikewallmusi c.com/MKHandTeli
> >>ngaOmnis/ T158_edit+ 7dB.mp3
> >>
> >>In this test I strapped the Telingas to a tree. Here are some pics:
> >><<http://mikewallmusi>http://mikewallmusi c.com/MKHandTeli
> >>ngaOmnis/ IMG_4189. jpg><http://mikewallmusi>http://mikewallmusi
> >>c.com/MKHandTeli ngaOmnis/ IMG_4189. jpg
> >><<http://mikewallmusi>http://mikewallmusi c.com/MKHandTeli
> >>ngaOmnis/ IMG_4191. jpg><http://mikewallmusi>http://mikewallmusi
> >>c.com/MKHandTeli ngaOmnis/ IMG_4191. jpg
> >>From the rear, for perspective. Yes, I am aimed at the house in this
> >>test:
> >><<http://mikewallmusi>http://mikewallmusi c.com/MKHandTeli
> >>ngaOmnis/ IMG_4194. jpg><http://mikewallmusi>http://mikewallmusi
> >>c.com/MKHandTeli ngaOmnis/ IMG_4194. jpg
> >>
> >>For your amusement I intentionally walk around, plug in a fountain,
> >>unplug the fountain, and walk a bit more. Audio:
> >>Telingas:
> >><<http://mikewallmusi>http://mikewallmusi c.com/MKHandTeli
> >>ngaOmnis/ LS100060_ edit_tree.
> >>mp3><http://mikewallmusi>http://mikewallmusi c.com/MKHandTeli
> >>ngaOmnis/ LS100060_ edit_tree. mp3
> > >MKH:
> >><<http://mikewallmusi>http://mikewallmusi c.com/MKHandTeli
> >>ngaOmnis/ T159_edit+
> >>7dB.mp3><http://mikewallmusi>http://mikewallmusi c.com/MKHandTeli
> >>ngaOmnis/ T159_edit+ 7dB.mp3
> >>
> >>For this clip I unplugged the Teingas and strapped the LS-10 to the
> >>tree. I left the gain unchanged so it is very quiet (I did not
> >>correct the gain in SF).
> >>Here's a pic:
> >><<http://mikewallmusi>http://mikewallmusi c.com/MKHandTeli
> >>ngaOmnis/ IMG_4195. jpg><http://mikewallmusi>http://mikewallmusi
> >>c.com/MKHandTeli ngaOmnis/ IMG_4195. jpg
> >>LS-10 built-in mics audio:
> >><<http://mikewallmusi>http://mikewallmusi c.com/MKHandTeli
> >>ngaOmnis/ LS100062_ edit_built-
> >>in_mics.mp3><http://mikewallmusi>http://mikewallmusi
> >>c.com/MKHandTeli ngaOmnis/ LS100062_ edit_built- in_mics.mp3
> >>
> >>For this final test I brought both rigs into my music room which is
> >>fairly quiet. I pointed them the same direction at a stack of foam
> >>bass traps. The gain was left unchanged:
> >>Telingas:
> >><<http://mikewallmusi>http://mikewallmusi c.com/MKHandTeli
> >>ngaOmnis/ LS100063_ edit_quiet.
> >>mp3><http://mikewallmusi>http://mikewallmusi c.com/MKHandTeli
> >>ngaOmnis/ LS100063_ edit_quiet. mp3
> >>MKH:
> >><<http://mikewallmusi>http://mikewallmusi c.com/MKHandTeli
> >>ngaOmnis/ T160_edit_
> >>quiet.mp3><http://mikewallmusi>http://mikewallmusi c.com/MKHandTeli
> >>ngaOmnis/ T160_edit_ quiet.mp3
> >>
> >>I was surprised by the very high level of "rumble" from the MKH rig
> >>so I made sure the heater was off and recorded a bit more "quiet:"
> >><<http://mikewallmusi>http://mikewallmusi c.com/MKHandTeli
> >>ngaOmnis/ T161_edit_ quiet2+7.
> >>mp3><http://mikewallmusi>http://mikewallmusi c.com/MKHandTeli
> >>ngaOmnis/ T161_edit_ quiet2+7. mp3
> >>
> >>The RMS is ~3.5 dB lower this time, but still lots of rumble
> >>compared to the Telingas+LS- 10. I recall a discussion about
> >>intrinsic high-pass in the LS-10 and that may be a big part of the
> >>difference. I have done no analysis beyond running SF's "statistics"
> >>tool.
> >>
> >>I hope this was of some interest.
> >>Best Regards,
> >>Mike
> >>
> >>
> >
> >--
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>--
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>"While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
>sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie Krause
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Telinga Microphones, Botarbo,
S-748 96 Tobo, Sweden.
Phone & fax int + 295 310 01
email:
website: www.telinga.com
|