Well said Kev - totally agree!
On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 11:19 AM, Kev Lobotomi <>
wrote:
> Hi Denise
> It's unfortunate that you persist with this continued bashing of bird
> watchers (who are to the most part to a lesser & greater degree listers).
> We do a lot more good than bad. There are bad eggs that spoil it for
> everyone else. But the conservation push would be no where near as great if
> birders weren't involved. Many more birds & other animals would have become
> extinct. It's only through interest & education that we have things like
> national parks & reserves & the protection of birds. Bird watchers are
> amongst the most intelligent people I have met & they for the most part
> love the science of the whole thing also & are quite happy to partake in
> surveys & give any knowledge they have so that birds can be protected.
> There are photographers who do the wrong thing, & sometimes twitchers too,
> but these incidences are small compared to amount of good we do. I would
> contend with the advent of digital photography it has now reduced the need
> for collecting birds, because the quality of the photographs are so good
> that you can see just about everything you need to see externally on a
> bird. Digital photography is an incredible tool that we can use for good,
> because the more we know about the bird, the more we can do to help protect
> it.
>
> I would contend that you wouldn't have a job if it wasn't for the amazing
> amount of interest that birdwatchers & other people interested in the
> natural world have generated, and this list includes listers! I would also
> argue that ecotourism probably effects the habitat of animals, because by
> necessity it introduces people into the habitat of often rare animals & in
> areas of pristine wilderness. If humans are going to be there, especially
> in numbers, then the facilities have to be there & the habitat has to
> suffer. It probably has a much greater effect on the ecosystem than any
> twitcher or photographer could ever cause. They are at least in and out &
> mostly leave barely any footprint. Ecotourism means buildings, roads, & all
> kinds of facilities, great big crevices in the environment.
>
> Kevin Bartram
>
>
> > From:
> > Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 08:43:24 +0930
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Night Parrot captured and videoed
> > CC:
> >
> > Sorry Charles, I have to disagree with you on empathy. To lister for
> example birding is a sport, competition, or “non-lethal” hunting, as Moore,
> Scott and Moore (2008) have described it - you yourself have used the term
> “quarry”.
> >
> > David Sibley, famous US birder once said that a lot of the things that
> “excite” birders "are bad for the birds.” Indeed birding as ‘sport’ appears
> to have been a reason for the establishment of the American Birding
> Association, and in my decades of birding I’ve seen nothing to convince me
> that the situation in Australia is any different.
> >
> >
> > Denise Lawungkurr Goodfellow
> >
> > PO Box 71
> > Darwin River, NT, Australia 0841
> > 043 8650 835
> >
> > PhD candidate, Southern Cross University, Lismore, NSW.
> >
> > Founding Member: Ecotourism Australia
> > Nominated by Earthfoot for Condé Nast’s International Ecotourism Award,
> 2004.
> >
> > With every introduction of a plant or animal that goes feral this
> continent becomes a little less unique, a little less Australian.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 11 Aug 2015, at 2:58 pm, Chris Charles <> wrote:
> >
> > > Eric,
> > > No I am not arguing that.
> > > I am saying that it is not a simple binary bullets vs bullets case.
> > > Relative to the existing risks, birdwatchers are a lesser risk;
> frequency x impact.
> > >
> > > All birdwatchers have an empathy for their quarry for a start. Yes I
> know you can quote the exception but again consider the statistical risk.
> > > Mitigating the major risks is in the best interest of the birds.
> > > Chris
> > >
> > > Chris Charles
> > > +61412911184
> > >
> > > Licole Monopods
> > > http://www.licole.com.au <http://www.licole.com.au/>
> > >> On 11 Aug 2015, at 2:57 pm, Eric Jeffrey <> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> There is an obvious fallacy to that argument, which should be clear
> once explained.
> > >>
> > >> What you are arguing is that if a species can hang on through 10
> hazards it can hang on through 11. That is like saying if you live through
> 10 bullets, the eleventh can't kill you.
> > >>
> > >> Eric Jeffrey
> > >> Falls Church, VA
> > >> USA
> > >>
> > >> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>
> > >>> On Aug 11, 2015, at 12:50 AM, Chris Charles <
> <>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Paul,
> > >>> Yep just a little irritated too.
> > >>>
> > >>> I understand that the researchers want to keep their site free of
> disturbance. I don’t have a problem with that.
> > >>> But the implication that birdwatchers are a major concern & are
> discouraged from western Queensland is a bit silly.
> > >>> For a bird that has hung on despite years of cattle, cats, dogs,
> mustering vehicles, roo shooters vehicles, fires,etc, you would think that
> even the most over enthusiastic cack-handed birdwatcher would be the least
> of its worries.
> > >>> Independent finding of other colonies must be a useful.
> > >>>
> > >>> But on the bright side, the sub species of ‘photographer' hasn’t
> been singled out this time!
> > >>> Chris
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Chris Charles
> > >>> +61412911184
> > >>>
> > >>> Licole Monopods
> > >>> http://www.licole.com.au <http://www.licole.com.au/> <
> http://www.licole.com.au/ <http://www.licole.com.au/>>
> > >>>> On 10 Aug 2015, at 11:14 am, Paul Dodd <>
> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Yes, tremendous news!
> > >>>>
> > >>>> As usual, however, the article (twice) mentions hordes of obsessive
> bird-watchers, initially when discussing John Young's original discovery:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> "The location was kept secret to protect the population from
> poachers — the bird is so rare it could fetch hundreds of thousands of
> dollars on the black market — and to avoid an onslaught of obsessive bird
> watchers who, without realising, could present equal danger to the fragile
> habitat."
> > >>>>
> > >>>> And again, with an apparent quote from Steve Murphy:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> "Hours from the nearest neighbouring property, the land space is so
> vast, it’s hard to imagine anyone being so lucky as to find the bird
> without expert knowledge but Dr Murphy said it would not stop obsessive
> bird watchers and poachers from trying."
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I've never considered myself particularly thin-skinned, so I wonder
> if it's just me - but this attitude is really starting to irritate me.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Anyway, I'll leave that for now. Since the gist of the article is
> that Bush Heritage Australia is leading the conservation effort for the
> Night Parrot (initially at the request of the farmer on whose land JY found
> and photographed the bird), it might be best to look at their web site.
> There is a great section on the bird and the recovery efforts and also some
> video of the release of the captured bird.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Here is a link to the Bush Heritage site:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> http://www.bushheritage.org.au/what_we_do/species_protection/night-parrot
> > >>>>
> > >>>> And, in case the link gets truncated, here is a shortened version
> of the link:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> http://bit.ly/1IRA2WL
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Paul Dodd
> > >>>> Docklands, Victoria
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>> From: Birding-Aus On
> Behalf Of Murray Lord
> > >>>> Sent: Monday, 10 August 2015 6:33 AM
> > >>>> To:
> > >>>> Subject: [Birding-Aus] Night Parrot captured and videoed
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The Australian today has a story about the first Night Parrot to
> have been captured by researchers. If you’re not a subscriber, try a
> Google News search for “Looking for a Night Parrot in a Haystack?”
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Murray
> > >>>> <HR>
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--
All the best,
James Mustafa
0400 951 517
www.jamesmustafajazzorchestra.com
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