Hi Kevin,
So well put - I was about to say the same thing. Almost without exception I
personally have found birdwatchers/twitchers/photographers to be some of
thoughtful and caring folk out there. I would even go so far as to suggest
that there are instances where some research scientists, government
agencies, museum collectors, tour operators and banders have done more harm
than good so in that respect they are no different. One day it would nice to
see us all get along, as they now do in many other countries. I shudder to
think what it would be like without birdwatchers or folk that have a real
interest in our natural history.
As for the Night Parrot - just fantastic stuff. I am so relieved that
things are being done. I was beginning to get concerned as so many months
have passed since John Young's amazing find.
Cheers,
Tony
-----Original Message-----
From: Birding-Aus On Behalf Of
Kev Lobotomi
Sent: Wednesday, 12 August 2015 11:19 AM
To: Denise Goodfellow; Chris Charles
Cc: birding-aus
Subject: Night Parrot captured and videoed
Hi Denise
It's unfortunate that you persist with this continued bashing of bird
watchers (who are to the most part to a lesser & greater degree listers). We
do a lot more good than bad. There are bad eggs that spoil it for everyone
else. But the conservation push would be no where near as great if birders
weren't involved. Many more birds & other animals would have become extinct.
It's only through interest & education that we have things like national
parks & reserves & the protection of birds. Bird watchers are amongst the
most intelligent people I have met & they for the most part love the science
of the whole thing also & are quite happy to partake in surveys & give any
knowledge they have so that birds can be protected. There are photographers
who do the wrong thing, & sometimes twitchers too, but these incidences are
small compared to amount of good we do. I would contend with the advent of
digital photography it has now reduced the need for collecting birds,
because the quality of the photographs are so good that you can see just
about everything you need to see externally on a bird. Digital photography
is an incredible tool that we can use for good, because the more we know
about the bird, the more we can do to help protect it.
I would contend that you wouldn't have a job if it wasn't for the amazing
amount of interest that birdwatchers & other people interested in the
natural world have generated, and this list includes listers! I would also
argue that ecotourism probably effects the habitat of animals, because by
necessity it introduces people into the habitat of often rare animals & in
areas of pristine wilderness. If humans are going to be there, especially in
numbers, then the facilities have to be there & the habitat has to suffer.
It probably has a much greater effect on the ecosystem than any twitcher or
photographer could ever cause. They are at least in and out & mostly leave
barely any footprint. Ecotourism means buildings, roads, & all kinds of
facilities, great big crevices in the environment.
Kevin Bartram
> From:
> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 08:43:24 +0930
> To:
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Night Parrot captured and videoed
> CC:
>
> Sorry Charles, I have to disagree with you on empathy. To lister for
example birding is a sport, competition, or “non-lethal” hunting, as Moore,
Scott and Moore (2008) have described it - you yourself have used the term
“quarry”.
>
> David Sibley, famous US birder once said that a lot of the things that
“excite” birders "are bad for the birds.” Indeed birding as ‘sport’ appears
to have been a reason for the establishment of the American Birding
Association, and in my decades of birding I’ve seen nothing to convince me
that the situation in Australia is any different.
>
>
> Denise Lawungkurr Goodfellow
>
> PO Box 71
> Darwin River, NT, Australia 0841
> 043 8650 835
>
> PhD candidate, Southern Cross University, Lismore, NSW.
>
> Founding Member: Ecotourism Australia
> Nominated by Earthfoot for Condé Nast’s International Ecotourism Award,
2004.
>
> With every introduction of a plant or animal that goes feral this
continent becomes a little less unique, a little less Australian.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 11 Aug 2015, at 2:58 pm, Chris Charles <> wrote:
>
> > Eric,
> > No I am not arguing that.
> > I am saying that it is not a simple binary bullets vs bullets case.
> > Relative to the existing risks, birdwatchers are a lesser risk;
frequency x impact.
> >
> > All birdwatchers have an empathy for their quarry for a start. Yes I
know you can quote the exception but again consider the statistical risk.
> > Mitigating the major risks is in the best interest of the birds.
> > Chris
> >
> > Chris Charles
> > +61412911184
> >
> > Licole Monopods
> > http://www.licole.com.au <http://www.licole.com.au/>
> >> On 11 Aug 2015, at 2:57 pm, Eric Jeffrey <> wrote:
> >>
> >> There is an obvious fallacy to that argument, which should be clear
once explained.
> >>
> >> What you are arguing is that if a species can hang on through 10
hazards it can hang on through 11. That is like saying if you live through
10 bullets, the eleventh can't kill you.
> >>
> >> Eric Jeffrey
> >> Falls Church, VA
> >> USA
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>> On Aug 11, 2015, at 12:50 AM, Chris Charles <
<>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Paul,
> >>> Yep just a little irritated too.
> >>>
> >>> I understand that the researchers want to keep their site free of
disturbance. I don’t have a problem with that.
> >>> But the implication that birdwatchers are a major concern & are
discouraged from western Queensland is a bit silly.
> >>> For a bird that has hung on despite years of cattle, cats, dogs,
mustering vehicles, roo shooters vehicles, fires,etc, you would think that
even the most over enthusiastic cack-handed birdwatcher would be the least
of its worries.
> >>> Independent finding of other colonies must be a useful.
> >>>
> >>> But on the bright side, the sub species of ‘photographer' hasn’t been
singled out this time!
> >>> Chris
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Chris Charles
> >>> +61412911184
> >>>
> >>> Licole Monopods
> >>> http://www.licole.com.au <http://www.licole.com.au/>
<http://www.licole.com.au/ <http://www.licole.com.au/>>
> >>>> On 10 Aug 2015, at 11:14 am, Paul Dodd <> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Yes, tremendous news!
> >>>>
> >>>> As usual, however, the article (twice) mentions hordes of obsessive
bird-watchers, initially when discussing John Young's original discovery:
> >>>>
> >>>> "The location was kept secret to protect the population from poachers
— the bird is so rare it could fetch hundreds of thousands of dollars on the
black market — and to avoid an onslaught of obsessive bird watchers who,
without realising, could present equal danger to the fragile habitat."
> >>>>
> >>>> And again, with an apparent quote from Steve Murphy:
> >>>>
> >>>> "Hours from the nearest neighbouring property, the land space is so
vast, it’s hard to imagine anyone being so lucky as to find the bird without
expert knowledge but Dr Murphy said it would not stop obsessive bird
watchers and poachers from trying."
> >>>>
> >>>> I've never considered myself particularly thin-skinned, so I wonder
if it's just me - but this attitude is really starting to irritate me.
> >>>>
> >>>> Anyway, I'll leave that for now. Since the gist of the article is
that Bush Heritage Australia is leading the conservation effort for the
Night Parrot (initially at the request of the farmer on whose land JY found
and photographed the bird), it might be best to look at their web site.
There is a great section on the bird and the recovery efforts and also some
video of the release of the captured bird.
> >>>>
> >>>> Here is a link to the Bush Heritage site:
> >>>>
> >>>>
http://www.bushheritage.org.au/what_we_do/species_protection/night-parrot
> >>>>
> >>>> And, in case the link gets truncated, here is a shortened version of
the link:
> >>>>
> >>>> http://bit.ly/1IRA2WL
> >>>>
> >>>> Paul Dodd
> >>>> Docklands, Victoria
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: Birding-Aus On
Behalf Of Murray Lord
> >>>> Sent: Monday, 10 August 2015 6:33 AM
> >>>> To:
> >>>> Subject: [Birding-Aus] Night Parrot captured and videoed
> >>>>
> >>>> The Australian today has a story about the first Night Parrot to have
been captured by researchers. If you’re not a subscriber, try a Google News
search for “Looking for a Night Parrot in a Haystack?”
> >>>>
> >>>> Murray
> >>>> <HR>
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