You might be interested in some (admittedly poor) shots of heuglini and
presumed barabensis I photographed in Sri Lanka at the end of December 2012
which can be seen here; http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=248501
The mantle colour of the heuglini there reminded me of graellsii. The presumed
barabensis was paler still.
The Broome gull seems quite dark but not far removed from what I observed in
heuglini and I don't think that taxon can be excluded on mantle colour. It is
certainly not as dark as I have been led to believe fuscus is (which is
practically black). I would say that its bare parts seem a little brighter than
I might expect on a northern hemisphere gull at this time of year - but they
are starting to colour-up as my barabensis photo shows. I shall leave it to
others to debate the finer points of wing-tip pattern etc.
Happy birding
Ken
Dorset
UK
>________________________________
> From: Nikolas Haass <>
>To: Tony Palliser <>; 'Mike Carter'
><>; ""
><>
>Cc: 'George Swann of Kimberley Birdwatching'
><>; 'Jim Allen' <>;
>'Danny Rogers' <>; 'Tony Palliser'
><>; 'Rohan Clarke' <>
>Sent: Tuesday, 22 January 2013, 8:39
>Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Lesser Black-backed Gull at Broome tip
>
>Nice shots, Tony.
>Could your NW Indian birds be taimyrensis? That could explain that they are
>paler than the Broome bird...
>
>Nikolas
>
>P.S. From van Dijk et al. 2011 Dutch Birding:
>
>
>"The lack of long-distance ring recoveries is one of the reasons for
>uncertainties and confusion about the wintering areas of Taimyr Gulls. Grant
>(1982) states that the wintering range is not known but quotes Vaurie (1965)
>who suggested the Caspian Sea as wintering area. Cramp & Simmons (1983)
>indicate that Taimyr Gulls spend the winter along the shores of the eastern
>Mediterranean, in the Caspian Sea area, along the Arabian Sea to western
>India, and partly also along coasts in eastern Africa. Glutz von Blotzheim &
>Bauer (1982) mention that Taimyr Gulls may winter in roughly the same area but
>clearly state that firm data like recoveries are lacking. Both sources assume
>that Taimyr Gulls migrate in a south-westerly direction towards the Indian
>Ocean. Possible confusion in these regions with, eg, Heuglin’s Gull L heuglini
>and Caspian Gull L cachinnans is one of the reasons for an unclear picture.
>In contrast, several more recent sources state that Taimyr Gulls migrate in a
>south-easterly direction towards the Pacific Ocean and that they spend the
>winter in coastal areas between Kamchatka, Russia, and Hainan, China. Il’icev
>& Zubakin (1990) mention that Taimyr Gulls breeding east of western Taimyr
>migrate in a south-easterly direction towards the Pacific. Kennerley et al
>(1995) indicate that almost all large white-headed gulls wintering in Hong
>Kong, China, are Taimyr Gulls and they mention two long-distance ring
>recoveries, both of birds which had migrated in a south-easterly direction
>towards the Pacific. Del Hoyo et al (1996) indicate that Taimyr Gulls spend
>the winter in the same area as shown by Cramp & Simmons (1983) but they state
>that birds breeding on eastern Taimyr winter along the north-western Pacific
>as well.
>In conclusion, not much is known about the precise wintering areas. We
>obtained new long-distance ring recoveries and the results are presented in
>this paper. We also present data on distribution and breeding biology and we
>give a description of the general appearance of adults, illustrated with
>photographs taken on Taimyr. It should be noted that Olsen & Larsson (2004) do
>not provide photographs of Taimyr Gull."
>
>Although van Dijk et al. present ring recoveries (n=6) only from the
>south-easterly route to the Pacific coast, they state the following in the
>discussion: "Recent sources indicate that gulls resembling Taimyr Gulls spend
>the winter in low numbers in southern Iran (Scott 2007) and Bahrain (Yésou &
>Hirschfeld 1997). The same may be true for the small number of unidentified
>large white-headed gulls seen at Okha, western India, described and depicted
>in Buchheim (2006)."
>
>----------------
>Nikolas Haass
>
>Sydney, NSW
>
>
>________________________________
>From: Tony Palliser <>
>To: 'Mike Carter' <>;
>Cc: 'George Swann of Kimberley Birdwatching'
><>; 'Rohan Clarke'
><>; 'Danny Rogers' <>; 'Tony
>Palliser' <>; 'Jim Allen' <>
>Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 7:16 PM
>Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Lesser Black-backed Gull at Broome tip
>
>Hi everyone,
>Have just started to go through the images taken a few days ago in NW India
>and have begun uploaded them here
>
>http://www.pbase.com/tony_palliser/gujurat_india
>
>(select view at original size to see a larger file)
>
>http://www.pbase.com/tony_palliser/image/148430367/original
>
>
>Interestingly, these birds appear a little paler above than the images I saw
>taken by Rohan earlier. For the record I have attempted to take great
>care with colour contrast - given the importance of this when identifying
>gulls. That said I am not entirely sure that these birds are Heuglins'
>Gull but this is what the books and various trips reports are saying they
>should be at this locality - namely Modhva Beach, Near Mandvi, Gujurat,
>India.
>
>Regards,
>Tony
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:
> On Behalf Of Mike Carter
>Sent: Tuesday, 22 January 2013 3:59 PM
>To:
>Cc: Jim Allen; Danny Rogers; George Swann of Kimberley Birdwatching; Tony
>Palliser; Rohan Clarke
>Subject: [Birding-Aus] Lesser Black-backed Gull at Broome tip
>
>The Gull was still there this morning bathing in a puddle near the gate. The
>Semi-palmated Plover was seen yesterday on the beach near the Port.
>Tony Palliser arrived back from NW India this morning with numerous photos
>of heuglini Lesser Black-backed Gulls so we will be able to compare our bird
>with those taken same day!
>In the meantime here are some opinions from the UK.
>
>Mike Carter
>30 Canadian Bay Road
>Mount Eliza VIC 3930
>Tel (03) 9787 7136
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----
>
>From: Alan Dean
>Sent: Tuesday, 22 January 2013 3:24 AM
>To: 'Kimberley Bird Watching'
>Cc: Dick Newell
>Subject: RE: FW: Gull ID Broome tip
>
>
>
>Hello George,
>
>
>
>It can be difficult to assess shade of grey accurately from photos but given
>it is as dark as Kelp ( and even fuscus entered the discussion) that is much
>darker than even western heuglini, which is the darkest end of the cline.
>Birds at western end of the range of heuglini (the ones I've seen) are much
>the same shade of grey as a graellsii Lesser Black-back. In flight there is
>quite an obvious contrast between the grey of the coverts /base of remiges
>and the black on the primaries. I wonder whether your bird is too dark?
>
>
>
> Regards, Alan
>
>
>
>
>From: Alan Dean
>Sent: Friday, 18 January 2013 6:26 PM
>To: 'Dick Newell'; 'Kimberley Bird Watching'
>Subject: RE: FW: Gull ID Broome tip
>
>
>
>Hello Dick & George,
>
>
>
>My experience of Kelp (and Cape) Gulls is too limited for me to pass any
>firm opinion. To my eye the photos convey rather differing impressions of
>the overall bulk and bill structure in particular but overall I find that
>the bill appears rather weaker and more slender than I would expect in Kelp,
>though as Dick notes it may be within the compass a small female Kelp. The
>legs also look rather more deeply yellow (less olive or grey tinted) than
>the Kelps I've seen but photos suggest this hue does occur. I agree with
>Dick about the moult strategy. Also, despite the moult and wear, it looks to
>me that the width of the white trailing edge to the inner primaries is much
>narrower than is typical of Kelp. See for example the flight shots here:
>http://carolinabirds.org/HTML/AF_Gull.htm. In Jim Allen's flight shot I
>could well imagine it was fuscus but taking all the photos into account it
>lacks that delicate 'genteel' demeanour of fuscus.
>
>
>
> Regards, Alan
>
>
>
>
>
>From: Dick Newell
>Sent: 17 January 2013 09:40
>To: Kimberley Bird Watching
>Cc: Alan Dean
>Subject: Re: FW: Gull ID Broome tip
>
>
>
>Hi George,
>
>Happy New Year to you!
>
>I am not sure what this is, my first reaction was Kelp Gull, because it
>looks quite dark, even black in the first shot, the legs look grey/greenish
>(though the feet are yellow), it looks a bit heavy about the head and bill,
>and the white tips to the secondaries look rather broad.
>
>But, it has arrested its primary moult at P6, which is the sort of thing
>that both fuscus and heuglini do, and not what Kelp Gull does as far as I
>know. As it is so dark, I suppose the choice is between fuscus and
>dominicanus.
>
>The iris looks a little dark which I guess is more kelp. The mirrors on P10
>and P9 don't help - could be either.
>
>The structure of the bird is intermediate, it could be a female Kelp or a
>big male fuscus, though the flight shots look really heavy for fuscus.
>
>So, I would say Kelp, but I cannot explain the arrested moult, so what i am
>really saying is, I am not sure.
>
>I'll copy this to a friend, Alan Dean - we share thoughts on gulls
>
>Dick
>
>On 17 January 2013 08:41, Kimberley Bird Watching
><> wrote:
>
>Hi Dick, Happy New Year, We have an odd gull in Broome at the moment and
>would love your opinion if you have time, obviously Kelp Gull is a contender
>being Australia but could it be Lesser Black-backed or even Heuglin's Gull ?
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