Hi Nikolas
I'm always hopeful that Birding Aussers, unlike many of those I encountered
when I was involved with the Lindy Chamberlain affair, can weigh up both
sides of the story.
Denise
On 20/12/12 9:13 AM, "Nikolas Haass" <> wrote:
> Hi Denise & John,
John, I agree with your point. However, I would not have
> expected an Australopithecus africanus child in a treetop. O.K. I need to have
> a closer look at the publications.
Denise, of course it should be open for
> discussion. The problem is that the more sensational story is always the one
> the stays in peoples' minds... E.g. it is well known that domestic dogs are
> much more dangerous than any wild canid (or introduced such as the Dingo).
> However, a story of a dingo/eagle stealing a baby is much more 'interesting'
> than the gazillionst story of the German Shepherd killing
> 'its' family's baby/a Rainbow Lorikeet shredding someone's fingers
> ;-)
Cheers,
Nikolas
----------------
Nikolas
> Haass
Sydney, NSW
________________________________
From:
> Denise Goodfellow <>
To: Nikolas Haass
> <>; Eve Belisle <>; Carl Clifford
> <>
Cc: Birding Aus <>
Sent:
> Thursday, December 20, 2012 9:35 AM
Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Golden Eagle
> attempts to take child
Re: [Birding-Aus] Golden Eagle attempts to take
> child
Hi Nicholas
I’m happy to accept that it might be a hoax, but my point
> is that such birds may well be capable of taking a small child as they could a
> lamb. In that case it’s a moot point whether the Taung child was actually
> killed by a raptor or scavenged.
Yes, some people may over-react as they
> did when it was finally accepted that dingoes (like other dogs) could and
> would kill a human being, and as some still do with venomous snakes or spiders
> or sharks. Does that mean the issue shouldn’t be open for
> discussion?
Regards
Denise
On 20/12/12 7:33 AM, "Nikolas Haass"
> <> wrote:
Hi Denise,
>
>It is pretty clear that it is a hoax
> - see previous mails. Further to the already mentioned points (including that
> the originators of the clip already explained how they faked it) has anyone
> had a look at the jizz of the bird? It is supposed to be a Golden Eagle, but
> the jizz doesn't look like that of an aquiline eagle at all. Almost looks like
> that the students 'borrowed' features from different genera to create their
> movie!
>
>Thanks for sending through the interesting Berger & McGraw paper on
> Stephanoaetus-type eagles and an Australopithecus africanus child. Admittedly,
> I didn't have the chance to read the paper in detail but it is clear that they
> compared skull damage marks to those caused by Stephanoaetus-type eagles (see
> also Gilbert et al. 2009 American Journal of Physical Anthropology). Maybe due
> to my superficial reading I missed an important point: Can they really rule
> out that the eagle KILLED the Australopithecus or did it just SCAVENGE on a
> dead one?
>We have to be very careful with overinterpreting these kinds of
> data. Similar stories already brought Lammergeier (Bearded Vulture) to the
> brink of extinction. And there are certainly many other
> examples...
>
>Cheers,
>
>Nikolas
>
>----------------
>Nikolas
> Haass
>
>Sydney,
> NSW
>
>
>
>
>>________________________________
> From: Denise
> Goodfellow <>
> To: Eve Belisle
> <>; Carl Clifford <>
>Cc: Birding
> Aus <>
> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2012 7:07
> AM
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Golden Eagle attempts to take child
>
>
>It
> is possible that this isn't a hoax.
>
>There is evidence from the 2 million
> year old fossil of a small South
>African child (Australopithecus africanus)
> that it was killed by a large
>bird of prey about the same size as our
> Wedge-tailed eagle (Berger, L.R.
>and Mcgraw, W.S.{2007}. Further evidence
> for eagle predation of, and
>feeding damage on, the Taung child. South African
> Journal of Science,
>vol.103, n.11-12:496-498).
>
>I wouldn't at all be
> surprised at an eagle having a go at a child. After all
>what's the difference
> between a toddler and a well-grown lamb? Being human
>doesn't preclude one
> being prey.
>
>Too well do I remember that baby Azaria Chamberlain being
> snatched by a
>dingo was considered a hoax as well. All the time my
> semi-traditional
>Aboriginal relatives were telling me that they knew that
> dingoes would take
>infants, evidence that I handed on to then criminologist,
> Dr. Paul Wilson,
>who was researching the issue.
>
>
>Denise Lawungkurr
> Goodfellow
>1/7 Songlark Street,
>Bakewell, NT 0832
>043 8650 835
>
>PhD
> candidate, SCU
>Vice-chair, Wildlife Tourism Australia
>Nominated for the
> Condé Nast international ecotourism award, 2004 by the
>renowned American
> website, Earthfoot.
>Wildlife Adviser, BBC¹s ŒDeadly 60¹
>
>
>
>
>On 19/12/12
> 11:04 PM, "Eve Belisle" <> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>Several
> aspects are wrong with this video, the first one being that the
>> ground has
> been covered in snow for at least a week here in Montreal. The
>> second thing
> is that this eagle is not a golden, the white patches on the
>> wings does not
> correspond to any stage of a young golden eagle plumage. It has
>> been
> suggested that it could be a Steppe Eagle or an hybrid, common in
>> falconry.
> The child is probably a doll, I think it's a well staged hoax!
>
>Eve
>>
> Bélisle
>Montréal, Canada
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>On 2012-12-19, at 06:48,
> Carl
>> Clifford <> wrote:
>
>> It is certainly a bit
> of a
>> curates egg as far as videos go, which is why I qualified with
> "seems
>> genuine". There are parts which look kosher and parts with an aura
> of shonk. I
>> guess the only way to know is for someone to do a proper
> forensic rip down on
>> the original of the clip. It is the sort of clip which
> brings many "experts"
>> out of the woodwork.
>>
>> Carl Clifford
>>
>> On
> 19/12/2012, at 22:00, Wendy
>> Cayless <> wrote:
>>
>>>
>
>>> Seems it is a fake
>>>
>>
> http://wtvr.com/2012/12/19/viral-fake-out-golden-eagle-snatches-kid-is-cgi/
>>
> >
>>
>>> Wendy
>>> http://twitter.com/WendyJoy
>>>
> http://wjcsydney.wordpress.com
>>>
>> http://kiva.org/invitedby/wendy2641
>>>
>
>>>
>>> From: Carl Clifford
>> <>
>>> To: Birding-Aus
> Aus <>
>>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, 19 December 2012 6:43
> PM
>>> Subject: [Birding-Aus] Golden
>> Eagle attempts to take child
>>>
>>>
> Dear B-A,
>>>
>>> Interesting footage of a
>> Golden Eagle attempting to take
> a toddler in a park in Montreal, Quebec. It
>> seems to be genuine.
>>>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE0Q904gtMI
>>>
>>>
>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Carl
> Clifford
>>> =
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