Looks like I again stirred some trouble with my provocative comments!
No, I wasn't trying to make a point about feral populations (E Greenfinches, E
Goldfinches, House Sparrows, C Mynas, E Starlings are relocated wild-type birds
and therefore a different story).
However, my point was that both Barbary Dove and Feral Pigeons are "human-made"
mutations of birds that occur elsewhere in the wild. Of course, they are
mutations - and thus still the same species. Would you guys "tick" a Chihuahua,
a Pomeraninan or a Golden Retriever as a Wolf Canis lupus? Except that there
are no feral Chihuahua populations - but there are Dingos!!! (another
historical man-made mutation!!!) - this is a similar situation as the Barbary
Dove.
Nikolas
----------------
Nikolas Haass
Sydney, NSW
----- Original Message ----
From: Dave Torr <>
To: Chris Sanderson <>
Cc: Nikolas Haass <>; Birding Aus <>
Sent: Friday, February 8, 2008 10:42:10 AM
Subject: RFI Barbary Dove
It does raise (and I guess this is Tania's point) the issue of when a
population reaches that magical "tickable" status. Some ferals are clearly in
that state but others - such as Barbary Dove and Helmeted Guineafowl (which was
also discussed here recently) have both "tickable" and "non-tickable"
populations. Guess you have to get local knowledge and/or monitor the
population for 10 years.....
On 08/02/2008, Chris Sanderson <> wrote:
Hi Nikolas,
While I can appreciate your view on this (I've always been somewhat
uncomfortable calling Feral Pigeons Rock Doves), I'm curious to know what
you think they are then? Are you suggesting they warrant a different
species name from the Rock Dove? Or are you just saying because they are a
feral they don't count? Similarly, Barbary Doves may not be a different
species from African Collared Dove, but if the birds are there, they are
something, whether Barbary or African Collared. While some people differ,
the general twitching rule in Australia seems to be to tick introductions
they must be wild birds in a self sustaining population, meaning they've
been breeding in the wild for about 10 years.
Just interested in your views on the matter.
Regards,
Chris
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