Paul,
Barbary Dove was long treated as S. risoria. For a long time it was unknown
from which species Barbary Dove was derived. Funnily, this human-made mutant
has apparently been scientifically described before the wild-type. This means
that 'risoria' is older than 'roseogrisea', which means in turn that actually
African Collared Dove should be 'risoria'. Crazy, isn't it?!
Nikolas
----------------
Nikolas Haass
Sydney, NSW
----- Original Message ----
From: Paul Dodd <>
To: Nikolas Haass <>
Cc: ; Michael Ramsey <>
Sent: Friday, February 8, 2008 8:19:23 PM
Subject: RFI Barbary Dove
Surely though, if we (as a birding community) are using Christidis and Boles
as our definitive species list - *all* species recorded on that list are
inherently "tickable". That must include the Barbary Dove.
That takes nothing away from your point, Nikolas. The species listed in C+B
as Barbary Dove is "Streptopelia roseogrisea" - which according to Wikipedia
is actually the African Collared Dove. Curiously Wikipedia lists the Barbary
Dove as "Streptopelia risoria" (I do appreciate that Wikipedia is not the
final word on anything).
Anyway, my point is that if it's in C+B it's tickable. The other "rule"
about self-sustaining populations also seems valid to me otherwise we would
certainly be ticking every aviary escapee.
Paul Dodd
Docklands, Melbourne
Currently I do not have Barbary Dove on my list!
-----Original Message-----
From:
On Behalf Of Nikolas Haass
Sent: Friday, 8 February 2008 2:08 PM
To: Michael Ramsey;
Subject: RFI Barbary Dove
Again, my point was man-made mutations! There are no wild Barbary Doves in
the wild. Barbary Dove is a man-mad mutation that distinctly differs from
African Collared Dove (as is the Chihuahua that distinctly differs from a
wolf!).
Nikolas
P.S. I even mentioned E Goldfinch & Co as an unrelated topic in an earlier
post!
----------------
Nikolas Haass
Sydney, NSW
----- Original Message ----
From: Michael Ramsey <>
To:
Sent: Friday, February 8, 2008 1:26:53 PM
Subject: RFI Barbary Dove
Spotted Doves and Laughing Doves are also widely kept in capitivity and have
formed populations from introductions as well. How do we know which ones are
decended from wild birds in Asia and Africa or ones that were escaped or
released from aviaries. Do you not count these as well because man has kept
them as a species in captivity for some type, the same as Barbary (African
Collared) Doves and Rock Doves (Feral Pigeons).
European Goldfinches are also widely kept in aviaries. How do I know the one
I saw yesterday are decended from the ones from a pet shop or from England
in the 1860's. Or where they from England then kept in captivity and then
released or escpaed??
If a species is breeding in the wild in Australia without human assistance I
think it should be tickable.
Michael Ramsey
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