At 2:14 AM +0000 3/16/09, justinasia wrote:
> > Here's the "recorder list" with no frills and missing lots of data:
>
>Hi Rob
>Quick note on why I like qualitative measurements:
>- I believe they are (at least) as equally valid as quantitative measureme=
nts
>- I guess that comparison charts are especially useful to people
>wanting to buy a new recorder, many of whom may be buying for the
>first time and so may not be able to understand numbers as well as
>they can understand qualitative data. So I believe adding
>qualitative data will greatly increase the functionality of a
>comparison chart. Perhaps you could even add little explanations for
>the columns too, such as "lower EIN value =3D more quiet". (All that
>might help beginners like me to find the information without having
>to ask too many questions).
>
>One more thing I think would be very useful to add, is modded
>models. My impression is that modded models can have much improved
>performance over the stock models enough to make a lot of difference
>for nature recording. But since they do not seem to feature on any
>comparison charts, it is difficult to compare them. Perhaps it is
>just because the reviewers do not try them? When I was researching
>which recorder to get, I received no feedback on the modded models
>from this group, so I asked Doug Oade directly about some EIN
>values, which I thought would be the most useful way for comparing
>them for nature recording. Here is his reply concerning the 2 models
>I was interested in, which may be useful for the new chart:
>
>About the Marantz PMD 661
>"The improvement is about 3dB resulting in an EIN of about -128dBu
>for the [Marantz PMD] 661 Super MOD. It would not have as much gain
>as the MixPre but would have much better detail and clarity as it
>has a higher SFDR on the front end.
>I like the [Fostex] FR2LE Super MOD for acoustic music recording
>best [I also asked him about quiet acoustic music] , EIN is about
>130dBu post MOD. Why is simple, I can use much better capacitors in
>the signal path plus it has a better A/D chip and less electronics
>in the signal path. It does not have as much gain as the 661, but it
>is close. It also uses a simple, pure FET signal path up to the A/D
>chip. This gives it the most natural sound and the best low level
>detail. If you listen carefully and use headphones or a hi
>resolution playback system, I feel confident you will agree."
>
>I asked also about the EIN for the Marantz PMD 620. He didn't have
>it on hand but said this:
>"The 620 is almost as quiet as the [Sony] D50 post MOD"
>
>If you told him about the chart, I expect he would be happy to
>provide more figures for his modded models. His quietest Marantz PMD
>620 has the internal mics and plug in power removed, by the way, to
>make it quieter, so has less features. But that combined with
>rebuilt preamps etc, he says makes for a quieter better recorder
>(and more gain).
>
>I have no connection to Doug by the way, except from having ordered
>from him recently. I just wanted to share about it as it seems that
>what he is doing should be so useful for the nature recording
>community, making the recorders quieter, sometimes higher gain, and
>more accurate sound. If I could help to give you more info when my
>modded fr-2le and 620 arrive, I would be happy to try though I am
>not very "high tech"! My microtrack is stock so perhaps I could
>compare it to that as a known reference. If that would be wanted,
>please contact me.
>
>Justin
Justin--
To fill-in the blank cells we have now would take several people a
full day reading through manuals. I need help. Feel free to download
a chart and add a column and start adding info. If the info you add
is complete enough, I'll add it to the master. If you sort the list,
be sure to do it very carefully as to not scramble the cells.
You can use NeoOffice (mac) or OpenOffice (pc) to open and edit .xls
spreadsheets ($5 donation-ware)
I plan to add links to comparison tests and I agree it would be
useful add some comments on how to interpret EIN numbers. There's a
limited number of units that have been measured which I think is the
most useful information provided. Many manufacturers don't provide
EIN specs; it will take some work to convert what they do supply into
meaningful numbers, if it possible. The manuf noise specs column may
be the most important category to work on first.
As for including modified units, indeed, many recordists are curious
about how their mods actually sound. Applications like recording
ambience in quiet locations should allow the improvements to shine.
"About" allows quite a bit of wiggle room when describing a change of
2-3 dB and there's what the noise sounds like which I'm sure they are
very aware of. I feel it would be most appropriate if the Oade
Brothers provided before/after comparison tests. If we try to do it
for them; you can see why they would question our results. Maybe you
can find some existing A/B tests on-line or you can check with them
and see what they have to say about this need.
Guy-
I think one needs the recorder in hand to assess those features
accurately. If you can ascertain that a few models are very well
designed for such needs, let me know. The "comments" cell can contain
some of this sort of info. Much of what is in that cell now doesn't
have much pertinence to general field recording. Rob D.
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