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Re: SASS (again)

Subject: Re: SASS (again)
From: "bobbaub <>" <>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 21:03:29 -0000
Walter,

I really appreciate your input to my recent post.  I have considered 
getting the Sound Devices MP2 but I should probably focus on 
analysing where the noise really resides in my system.  Here's what I 
have:

Tasam DA-P1
Crown SASS
(2) 3' Monster Cables

A simple and mobile unit.  I need to start seriously troubleshooting 
the recorder and mic.  Maybe the preamps on the Tascam are not good 
enough?  

Is there such a thing as "low noise" PZM capsules?  What are some 
good recomendations for the Sennheiser MKH & ME lines?  I've spent 
quite a bit of money already but probably nothing compared to 
everybody else so I'm trying to go as cheap as possible.  
Remember "ambience recording" is what I love to do best.

boB





--- In  Walter Knapp <> 
wrote:
> bobbaub  wrote:
> > Ah, yes...that is more like a block diagram.  Also...that diagram 
> > comes with the SASS when you buy it.  I was looking for something 
> > with component values.  Thanks anyway.  I'm wondering if Crown(or 
> > someone) ever made a "low noise" PZM capsule, doubtful though 
eh?  
> > 
> > My idea of recording nature is recording outdoor ambience.  I 
really 
> > love to do this but I guess I was asking for trouble when I 
decided 
> > to buy the SASS.  I know many of you are saying "check-out Lang's 
> > mod".  I have but i'ts really not what I have in mind.(though it 
must 
> > sound great)!  
> > 
> > I am also open to any suggestions concerning buying a stereo 
> > microphone setup for this type of application.  When I record 
with my 
> > SASS I am forced to crack up the gain and proportionally the 
noise 
> > floor.  I then have to spend hours de-noising the whole program.  
> > This of course is senseless.  I LOVE stereo recording and love 
the 
> > PZM principal as well, so I didn't want to give up on the mic and 
> > avoid destroying it.
> 
> I'm of the opinion if you like the sort of soundfield you are 
getting 
> with the SASS, except for the unwanted noise, then the best bet is 
the 
> mod. Not much else will give you that wide expansive soundfield.
> 
> What crown used to do for a low noise version was supply the 
housing all 
> set up to fit a pair of DPA 4006 omni's, which you supplied. Lang 
tried 
> that, but did not like the sound of the noise floor for those. He 
then 
> modified one of the SASS-B's to mount MKH-20's in it and has been 
using 
> that successfully for a while now. Meantime, crown has discontinued 
the 
> SASS-B. So the low noise version has become a do it yourself sort 
of thing.
> 
> The solution is to buy the housing as a part from their parts 
department 
> and make your own modifications. I've done exactly that, making one 
> that's using a pair of MKH-110 omni's, and a second one using the 
> MKH-20's. In case you were unaware, there are photos and samples:
> http://frogrecordist.home.mindspring.com/docs/sass_mkh110.html
> http://frogrecordist.home.mindspring.com/docs/sass_mkh-20.html
> 
> Also see my recent post of a set of samples recorded at a couple 
sites 
> that include these two mics with others.
> 
> I have one of the Crown SASS-P MKII's. I agree, for ambient nature 
> recording it suffers from too much noise, both from handling and 
from 
> the electret capsules it uses. I don't think this can be fixed 
fiddling 
> with the internal electronics. It's a good mic if recording from 
loud 
> enough soundfields to cover the noise floor.
> 
> You don't have to cut up your SASS. You would only have to buy the 
> housing which is something like $25 and do the mod on that part, 
making 
> a few custom pieces. Everything else from your unmodified SASS 
would be 
> the same. (except the mod SASS won't fit in the case cutout because 
of 
> the mics sticking out the back.) Of course you do have to come up 
with 
> some low noise mics, which is the hard part.
> 
> Other choices all involve finding low noise mics that work well in 
field 
> recording. That's the key. If you don't want to go with a mod SASS, 
then 
> study the other stereo options, then find the mics to do them. This 
> usually comes down to the same relatively small set of mics. In 
other 
> words if I was choosing, for instance, some stereo setup that 
needed two 
> omni's, the mic choice would be the same as for the mod SASS, the 
> MKH-20's or, in my case because I have them, the MKH-110's. There 
are a 
> number of other mics with low noise that could be investigated, but 
for 
> the most part have no track record for nature recording. Depending 
on 
> just how much you want to cut noise levels, ME mics are a less 
costly 
> option, and those do have a track record for nature recording.
> 
> For relatively easy portability while set up, M/S stereo setups are 
> interesting. I put up some samples from those as well. I'm not sure 
you 
> can get as wide a soundfield out of them as the SASS. Need to do 
more 
> experimenting. The unfortunate thing about M/S is that the 
essential 
> figure 8 mic is usually only found in a manufacturer's top line. 
There 
> are also some pretty low noise all in one M/S mics, at pretty high 
> prices for the good ones.
> 
> You might can get a slightly better recording off the SASS original 
by 
> running it through something like the Sound Devices MP2 and 
carefully 
> balancing the gain of the MP2 with that of your recorder. I somehow 
> don't think that would be worth it unless you already had a MP2. 
You are 
> primarily trying to avoid recorder self noise when you do this.
> 
> Quiet ambiance is one of the most demanding recording situations at 
the 
> mic end. You can do so little filtering without destroying what you 
were 
> recording.
> 
> You did not say, but if you are heading for the low noise end of 
things 
> be sure your recorder is not part of the problem. Most portable 
> recorders are somewhat noisy if the gain is pegged out. Using 
something 
> like the MP2 pre can help to avoid this. And, of course, moving up 
to a 
> higher spec recorder helps. You have to keep balancing mic and 
recorder 
> quality for highest quality results.
> 
> Walt
> 



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