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Re: SASS (again)

Subject: Re: SASS (again)
From: "Rich Peet <>" <>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 00:20:25 -0000
I will make a few notes to add my two cents:

I would love to have a DA-P1 from looking at the specs.  I would be 
very happy with the output compared to what I use now for ambience 
and I record some neat stuff.

The sass in stock configuration is a good ambience mic if you have a 
target with a good signal.

The upgrades talked about here for the sass are only important for 
faint signal recording.

a ME-62 can not be used in pzm configuration in a sass because of the 
side slots and should not be attempted.

A MKH-110 is much more wind sensitive than a ME-62.  I still prefer 
two me-62's in a foam barrier for ambience as I am picking placement 
in the best center of a soundscape I can find and want 360 degrees.

A MKH-110 can be disassembled and built into a sass and the switch 
rewired so that a choice can be made between the 110,  or the stock 
mics which are very nice and flat on louder signals and very wind 
resistant.

I don't think that Bob is the proper victim to test the rode mic on.  
We need someone who hits the trade shows to test drive this.

Rich Peet



--- In  Walter Knapp <> 
wrote:
> bobbaub  wrote:
> > Walter,
> > 
> > I really appreciate your input to my recent post.  I have 
considered 
> > getting the Sound Devices MP2 but I should probably focus on 
> > analysing where the noise really resides in my system.  Here's 
what I 
> > have:
> > 
> > Tasam DA-P1
> > Crown SASS
> > (2) 3' Monster Cables
> > 
> > A simple and mobile unit.  I need to start seriously 
troubleshooting 
> > the recorder and mic.  Maybe the preamps on the Tascam are not 
good 
> > enough?  
> 
> I've not used a DA-P1, so have no direct experience. It has been 
> variously reported that it's pre's are noisy. And also that it's 
phantom 
> power can introduce noise.
> 
> If you have been using the SASS with phantom power from the DA-P1, 
try 
> some batteries in the SASS to find out if the DA-P1's phantom power 
was 
> your problem.
> 
> You also might try recording with the DA-P1 with no mic at various 
gain 
> settings. It does not give a true picture of the pre under load, 
but 
> will expose some problems.
> 
> If you can borrow a low noise mic, you will get a lot more info 
about 
> the quality of the DA-P1's pre.
> 
> If most of the unwanted noise is coming from the DA-P1, then the 
MP2 may 
> be the cheapest way out. It can supply both the phantom power, and 
> bypass the DA-P1's pre's. At the annoyance of another lump to cart 
about.
> 
> I doubt that the cables are the problem. I use Canare Star Quad 
cable 
> with the high quality end of neutric XLR connectors. The monster 
cables 
> won't be near as good a quality, but nature recording is not that 
> demanding, particularly in short lengths like that. If you are 
getting a 
> lot of handling noise off the cables, a longer length might help. 
The 
> original SASS I have is fantastically sensitive to cable noise, a 
real 
> problem. A section of thin, cloth covered cable near the SASS might 
help.
> 
> I should point out that the MP2 I have I got as one that had been 
bought 
> and returned unused, and paid $490. Took me several months of 
looking to 
> find one that low.
> 
> > Is there such a thing as "low noise" PZM capsules?  What are some 
> > good recomendations for the Sennheiser MKH & ME lines?  I've 
spent 
> > quite a bit of money already but probably nothing compared to 
> > everybody else so I'm trying to go as cheap as possible.
> 
> Crown, who dominate PZM (in fact they own that name), use 
relatively 
> noisy capsules across their line.
> 
> Low noise is generally associated with larger mics than are used 
for 
> PZM. For most uses low noise is not as big a issue as it is for us, 
so 
> there is not a lot of pressure for Crown to develop low noise 
versions.
> 
> Note I've tested the modified SASS with and without PZM covers on 
the 
> mics. The PZM covers make the sound worse. They do best as boundary 
mics 
> where the diaphragm is on the same plane as the boundary. And 
definitely 
> beat the standard SASS with it's PZM mics.
> 
> The first part of choosing a mic is choosing type. In the MKH & ME 
> current lineup there is one omni, one cardiod etc. in each line. 
So, if 
> choosing a omni pattern (for the SASS or spaced omni setups) you 
would 
> use either the MKH-20 or the ME-62. The MKH-20 has a self noise of 
> 10dBA, the ME-62 a self noise of 15dBA. Your SASS is a self noise 
of 
> about 20dBA. The MKH-20 will cost you about $1200 each, or, if you 
are 
> lucky off ebay about half that used, each. The ME-62 is about half 
that 
> price, or maybe less.
> 
> If you decided to do a X/Y cardioid stereo, you would be looking at 
a 
> MKH-40 or ME-64. Again the price is about the same ratio between 
and 
> there is a similar noise spec, a dB or two above the omni's. Off 
ebay 
> MKH-40's don't go for as much as 20's. Sometimes as low as $400. 
But you 
> have to have lots of time to watch.
> 
> There is a cardioid that's got really interesting specs, self noise 
of 
> 5dBA. It's a unknown for nature recording, is a studio mic big and 
> bulky, would virtually require a stand I think, and a side mic, but 
it's 
> price is about $200. It's a risk to try it but might be a real 
find. 
> It's the Rode NT1A. Note I'm not recommending it to you, but 
pointing 
> out there are some other choices floating about.
> 
> Note as a rule omni's are the least sensitive to handling and wind 
noise 
> compared to the directional mics. In practice what it takes to deal 
with 
> those differs little between omnis and others.
> 
> Note one pattern you will not find in the ME series is the figure 8 
mic. 
> This is the necessary mic for M/S stereo, so if considering that, 
you 
> are into MKH mics, which have the MKH-30 with is a figure 8 mic and 
the 
> MKH-80 and MKH-800 both multipattern mics that can be set to figure 
8. 
> That's how I ended up committing to MKH mics.
> 
> Note the other thing you need to clear up is if you are simply 
trying to 
> record something that's too distant for your mic. This is a common 
> problem for those beginning in nature recording. And the usual 
symptom 
> is that you are cranking the gain to full and still getting weak 
> recordings. Most stereo systems are limited as to range to 
relatively 
> close things. If you are trying to get stuff from way out there, 
you may 
> find a Telinga with DAT Stereo mic a more satisfying choice. Or 
even 
> spot recording at various locations and getting into mixing your 
stereo. 
> Which is a tough game.
> 
> If it's close enough to get a good enough sound input, even the 
original 
> SASS will work well. It takes time to learn how to use a mic. You 
may 
> just need to learn your limitations with it.
> 
>  > Remember "ambience recording" is what I love to do best.
> 
> I like it too. But it's costly to do if you are real picky about 
sound 
> quality.
> 
> You might find Bernie Krause's "Wild Soundscapes" book interesting 
to 
> read. Not so much for equipment recommendations, but for ideas.
> 
> Walt
> 



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