Hi all,
I agree with Chris that it's largely not something to be concerned about
unless you are a professional photographer whose main income source comes
from photography, and in that case you likely aren't going to put the
photos on facebook to begin with, since you want to sell them at a later
date. And it is always your call.
It's also worth bearing in mind that practically all companies that provide
a platform for sharing things such as photos have a similar policy. So the
chance of a photo being used by facebook to make them money is probably
about as high as that Gmail or Microsoft will do the same with any email
you've ever sent. Yet birding-aus persists.
Finally, in the context that we are talking here: rare birds, the
identification of such, and the coordination of twitches in pursuit of
them, it's not likely that the photos or videos that people are sharing are
of the quality that would make them sellable. So to be honest, if I post a
shot of the dowitcher asking for an ID, I am far more interested in getting
that ID than worried about facebook taking it and making money off it. I
was never going to sell that shot in the first place.
Cheers,
Ashwin
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Chris Sanderson <>
wrote:
> Hi Carl and everyone,
>
> This gets trotted out pretty regularly as a reason not to post anything on
> a variety of platforms, including Facebook. I would suggest the idea that
> Facebook has any interest in your particular bird photo is pretty
> ridiculous. While a very loose legal interpretation might be that they are
> entitled to use those photographs you post, this is mainly an ass-covering
> exercise from a legal perspective, as they distribute your photograph to
> friends, friends of friends, or anyone who looks at it, depending on your
> security settings. You are essentially giving them permission to do this.
>
> Now, I'm not saying that Facebook doesn't have privacy and data issues
> (they are known to sell your behavioural data to marketers, or even
> manipulate your experience on the site for research purposes), however the
> idea that they would risk a huge media blow-up over stealing someone's
> photos is, to me at least, stretching belief. They make money off people
> who use their site. If you stop producing content for them, or stop using
> their site, they aren't showing you advertising anymore, or aggregating
> your data to sell to marketing people. This is worth far more to them than
> any photograph could be worth. I have no doubt I have earned Facebook more
> revenue just by using it than I have ever made selling photos.
>
> Having said all that, if you don't want to post photos on Facebook,
> there's no reason you have to. And if you don't want to be on Facebook at
> all, that's fine too, that's totally your call. Just don't be too
> surprised if you start missing out on the latest in bird news, since that
> seems to be the way things are going at the moment here in Aus.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
>
> On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 12:33 PM, Carl Clifford <>
> wrote:
>
>> Here is section 1. of Facebook's statement on intellectual property
>> rights.
>> For content that is covered by intellectual property rights, such as
>> photos and videos (IP content), you specifically give us the following
>> permission, subject to your privacy and application settings: you grant us
>> a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide
>> licence to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with
>> Facebook (IP Licence). This IP Licence ends when you delete your IP content
>> or your account, unless your content has been shared with others and they
>> have not deleted it. the full T&C can be found at
>> https://www.facebook.com/legal/terms
>>
>> I would be very careful about posting anything, text or images on
>> Facebook that you would want to possibly want to make money out of in the
>> future. they can probably afford bigger and better lawyers than the average
>> FB user, and you would have to take them on in the US legal system.
>>
>> Carl Clifford
>>
>>
>> On 13 Nov 2014, at 2:52 pm, wrote:
>>
>> > That makes Facebook's alternative name "stalkbook" even more
>> appropriate, or should that be "storkbook".....
>> >
>> > Doesn't everything that goes on facebook, including pictures, become
>> the property of facebook and not the "owner" of the photos, etc?
>> >
>> > I will stick with B-A, even though Rusty is a blues man... :-)
>> >
>> > Yours in all things "green"
>> >
>> > John Harris BASc, GDipEd
>> > Director - Wildlife Experiences P/L
>> > Principal Zoologist/Ecologist
>> > Nature Photographer
>> > Wildlife Guide
>> > Croydon, Vic
>> > 0409 090 955
>> >
>> > President, Field Naturalists Club of Victoria
>> > www.fncv.org.au
>> >
>> > ----- Reply message -----
>> > From: "Ashwin Rudder" <>
>> > To: "John Tongue" <>
>> > Cc: "" <>
>> > Subject: [Birding-Aus] Historic channels
>> > Date: Thu, Nov 13, 2014 11:57
>> >
>> > Hi Peter, and others,
>> >
>> > John is right, the majority of the discussion has happened on facebook.
>> > Increasingly I think, there is a shift away from birding-aus for several
>> > reasons. An email list is a relatively slow way of disseminating
>> > information (much faster than past methods, but much slower than
>> something
>> > like facebook). Most significantly, b-a suffers from not being able to
>> > handle image files. Almost all of the discussion on the dowitcher's ID
>> has
>> > come from people being able to post photos, add pointers to them, and
>> talk
>> > very quickly, in much more of a conversational style than b-a allows. A
>> > video or two has also been posted.
>> >
>> > In terms of how easy it is to retrieve information on facebook: there
>> is a
>> > search function that acts like a find tool in a Microsoft Word document
>> (or
>> > similar), so it looks for any post containing that word, and then
>> displays
>> > the entire thread. In essence, it is no different to searching the
>> archives
>> > of birding-aus, although without any issues of having the subject line
>> > change halfway through a thread, which can make topics hard to follow
>> here.
>> >
>> > Obviously, the shift to facebook further fragments the grapevine that
>> the
>> > birding community relies on. However, increasing numbers of people, of
>> all
>> > ages, have facebook and it really is very convenient. Birdline remains
>> the
>> > premier rare bird telegraph page, while this page remains the best for
>> in
>> > depth discussions. One of the great criticisms of facebook by social
>> > commentators is that it feed the instantaneous me-me-me! attitude of the
>> > yoof; ironically, this is exactly what's needed for rare, twitchable
>> birds,
>> > and that makes modern-day social media the best spot for twitchers.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Ashwin Rudder
>> >
>> > On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 8:37 AM, John Tongue <>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi Peter, et al,
>> >> There has been a fair bit of discussion on the "Australian Twitchers"
>> FB
>> >> page. While people keep adding comments to a particular thread, that
>> keeps
>> >> it live and active. I'm not sure what happens to that info some time
>> after
>> >> people stop commenting, and how easy it will prove to be to retrieve.
>> >>
>> >> Cheers,
>> >> John Tongue
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 13/11/2014, at 7:16 AM, Peter Shute <> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Interesting comment below from Ashwin about where the discussion of
>> >> Victoria's Lake Tutchewop Dowitcher is taking place. I assume "historic
>> >> channels" means the birding-aus list?
>> >>>
>> >>> Where else is discussion taking place? I've seen plenty of discussion
>> in
>> >> the Victorian Birders Facebook group. Is there anywhere else?
>> >>>
>> >>> Facebook has the advantage that photos can be posted, but I'm
>> wondering
>> >> if there is any kind of archive being kept. I often can't find a
>> Facebook
>> >> discussion just days after I last looked at it, let alone months or
>> years.
>> >> Is there a way to find them, or is this stuff just getting lost? And
>> does
>> >> it matter?
>> >>>
>> >>> Peter Shute
>> >>>
>> >>> Sent from my iPad
>> >>>
>> >>>> On 13 Nov 2014, at 5:03 am, Ashwin Rudder <>
>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Hi all,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I haven't seen anything really up to date posted to b-a; most
>> discussion
>> >>>> seems to have happened away from the historic channels. In summary:
>> >>>>
>> >>>
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