Couldn't agree more!
As someone else mentioned - we don't even know if the offenders were indeed
birdwatchers etc at all.
Why do we need to even label them? Surely they should be referred to as perhaps
ignorant or selfish individuals without having to lump them into a group at
all?
Even more reason to follow Simon's points and try to educate those we think are
doing the wrong thing.
Cheers
Dave
On 19/08/2012, at 1:40 PM, Simon Mustoe <> wrote:
>
> Here here Richard.
>
> Each time birders pass the buck to twitchers, it allows the wider birding
> community to avoid having to take responsibility. There are too many armchair
> critics (especially on this forum) .. my question is, why doesn't someone do
> something at the time? Why aren't birders standing up to the problem when
> they see it - take a photo, shout at the person, shame them into appropriate
> behaviour. If there are 30 birders standing watching, then they are all
> complicit if they let it happen.
>
> We're very swift to attack and defame people on the forum for innocent
> behaviour - African gentlemen asking for assistance, philanthropic
> documentary film-makers to name two recent examples. We vent spleen on people
> openly for minor indiscretion when we're protected by a firewall and
> cyberspace anonymity ... but these tactics when applied to something really
> important for birdwatching, like the Red Goshawk disturbance issue, reveal
> these armchair debates to be as fruitless as they really are.
>
> If we have a problem with the behaviour of birders, then what are we going to
> do about it? Let's not sit and snipe at sector of the birding community that
> aren't to blame, let's identify the perpetrators of the problem and cajole
> these individuals into behaving themselves. Let's set a standard - I'm not
> talking about a 'code of ethics' ... it's obvious what ethics are and their
> existence doesn't alter the behaviour of people. How birders behave is
> determined by social norms and no-one wants to be subject to negative peer
> pressure from their chosen social group.
>
> This is a problem that needs to be solved by birders not by BirdLife
> Australia, governments or the police - it's good that it's been raised here
> as a problem but unless people act when they see misdemeanours occur, no
> difference will ever be made. I would start by speaking out in the field ...
> there's enough birders in this country to start making the message stick.
>
> Regards,
>
> Simon.
>
> PS - we have to be careful not to make mountains out of molehills too. As
> important as this nest is, the misbehaviour of a few is no reason to create a
> stigma around birders or twitching in general. I'm fed up of recent national
> press criticism of birders by spokespeople for the birding community. It
> doesn't solve the problem ... it just creates more division.
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Simon Mustoe
> Tel: +61 (0) 405220830 | Skype simonmustoe | Email
>
>
> Visit BIRD-O at http://www.bird-o.com
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>
>
>
>
>
>> From:
>> Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 13:06:47 +1000
>> To:
>> CC: ;
>> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Red Goshawk harrassment
>>
>> Steve, Shirley, Denise and others,
>>
>> I'm struggling to make the connection with a group of 30-40 birders camped
>> near a Red Gos nest in NT, obviously on some kind of birding tour through
>> the NT, with twitching. It appears that every time someone disturbs a bird,
>> they're labelled a inconsiderate twitcher. I wonder if asked, how many
>> people in that group would call themselves twitchers or actually ARE
>> twitchers?
>>
>> Our scientific community traps, mist nets, tags, bands, handles, takes blood
>> samples, cannon nets, radio tags, egg collects, shoots and generally
>> disturbs more birds in any week of the year than all Australia's twitchers
>> combined over the last 100years!
>>
>> Mmmmmm!
>>
>> Cheers
>> Richard
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On 17/08/2012, at 10:37 AM, Peter Shute <> wrote:
>>
>>> Maybe, but when people want close photos of raptors, they seem to build a
>>> tower with a hide on top, and wait for the birds to get used to it. Surely
>>> climbing the tree would just result in the birds flying away and not coming
>>> back till you're gone, if ever.
>>>
>>> Peter Shute
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: John Tongue
>>>> Sent: Friday, 17 August 2012 9:52 AM
>>>> To: Peter Shute
>>>> Cc: 'Denise Goodfellow'; Birding Aus
>>>> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Red Goshawk harrassment
>>>>
>>>> Or over-zealous photographer??
>>>>
>>>> John Tongue
>>>> Ulverstone, Tas.
>>>>
>>>> On 17/08/2012, at 9:24 AM, Peter Shute wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Climbing the tree doesn't sound like normal birder bad behaviour. That
>>>> sounds more like an egg collector.
>>>>>
>>>>> Peter Shute
>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: [birding-aus-
>>>>>> On Behalf Of Denise Goodfellow
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, 17 August 2012 7:43 AM
>>>>>> To: Birding Aus
>>>>>> Subject: [Birding-Aus] Red Goshawk harrassment
>>>>>>
>>>>>> While in Mataranka recently I heard about the behaviour of some
>>>> birders
>>>>>> towards the Red Goshawk near Bitter Springs. Some had climbed the
>>>> fence
>>>>>> into private property and one, according to the proprietor of the
>>>> nearby
>>>>>> caravan park , had even climbed the tree in which the bird nested.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Several other birders (thirty or forty according to the proprietor)
>>>> had
>>>>>> camped outside their property opposite the nesting tree.
>>>>>> That year, according to the proprietor, the birds didn't raise any
>>>>>> young.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some years ago I warned birders of the ramifications of bad behaviour
>>>> re
>>>>>> entry to the Leanyer Sewage Ponds. The result was that access to the
>>>>>> ponds
>>>>>> was tightened considerably.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The goshawks have now shifted their nest well away from the road. If
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> shift it again then the bird may well be out of sight of visiting
>>>>>> birders,
>>>>>> and they'll be dependent on the goodwill of the owner of that
>>>> property
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> let them in. I think that reserve of goodwill may be wearing thin.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Denise Lawungkurr Goodfellow
>>>>>> 1/7 Songlark Street,
>>>>>> Bakewell, NT 0832
>>>>>> 043 8650 835
>>>>>>
>>>>>> PhD candidate, SCU
>>>>>> Vice-chair, Wildlife Tourism Australia
>>>>>> Nominated for the Condé Nast international ecotourism award, 2004 by
>>>> the
>>>>>> renowned American website, Earthfoot.
>>>>>> Wildlife Adviser, BBC¹s ŒDeadly 60¹
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Birds of Australia's Top End and Quiet Snake Dreaming available on
>>>>>> amazon.com
>>>>>> A second edition of Fauna of Australia¹s Top End used by the
>>>> University
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> NSW as a text for 12 years is now under preparation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 'It gave me huge insight into the lives' of Aboriginal Australians¹,
>>>>>> Jonathon Franzen, American author, birder, conservationist (August,
>>>>>> 2011)
>>>>>> on Quiet Snake Dreaming.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> www.denisegoodfellow.com ( to be launched again soon).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ===============================
>>>>>>
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>>>>>> send the message:
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>>>>>>
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