Red Goshawk harrassment

To: "'Philip Veerman'" <>, "'Birding Aus'" <>
Subject: Red Goshawk harrassment
From: "Carl Weber" <>
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 16:53:50 +1000
Hi Philip,

I don't think that the enforcement of bird protection laws is too difficult.
If such laws are enacted, then someone is made responsible for their
administration and enforcement. Those made responsible for administration
would be in a position to Declare Known Nesting Areas as such under the
relevant Act of Parliament, and these guardians of the process would place
notices and markers around nesting areas. Something very similar already
happens in NSW around known hooded plover and little tern nesting sites on
beaches and lagoons. Currently, areas in National Parks can be protected in
similar ways under powers given to Parks managements. The point of the
proposed legislation is to extend such powers to privately owned or leased
lands, where the wellbeing of the birds is dependent on the goodwill of

Certainly, the Mataranka situation, where there has been nesting for some
years, would be relatively simple to manage. To reiterate, Denise's
information indicates to me that that there may have been a temporary
problem for goshawks from humans at Mataranka. Irrespective of this, we need
legislation to prevent serious damage or vandalism at such sites in the

Carl Weber

-----Original Message-----
 On Behalf Of Philip Veerman
Sent: Friday, 17 August 2012 3:29 PM
To: 'Birding Aus'
Subject: Red Goshawk harrassment

I was going to respond to Richard Baxter exactly as Carl Clifford has done.
Although I suspect Richard was teasing. Actually all good points and fair to
raise the issues yet again. But as others have commented, it is not exactly
clear what happened in this case that Denise reported and who and how the
birds were disturbed and what impact that had. Also about the suggestion of
Carl Weber that "The bird protection law that I envisage would make it an
offence to climb the tree, take eggs, shoot anywhere near the birds, camp
within say 200 m, or in any way seriously disturb the nesting birds." This
would seem hard to envisage. Not every camper knows the difference between a
Red Goshawk and a Galah, so expecting random travelling campers to know
where such sensitive fauna (of many species) exist and avoid the area by as
much as 200 m, would appear unlikely to happen.


-----Original Message-----From: 
 On Behalf Of Carl Clifford
Sent: Friday, 17 August 2012 1:18 PM    To: Richard Baxter      Cc: Denise
Goodfellow; Birding Aus
Subject: Red Goshawk harrassment


You are pulling a bit of a long bow there, unless you have hard data to
prove you statement. Or is this one of those "facts that everyone knows".

Carl Clifford

On 17/08/2012, at 1:06 PM, Richard Baxter <> wrote:

> Steve, Shirley, Denise
> Our scientific community traps, mist nets, tags, bands, handles, takes 
> blood samples, cannon nets, radio tags, egg collects, shoots and 
> generally disturbs more birds in any week of the year than all 
> Australia's twitchers combined over the last 100years!
> Mmmmmm!
> Cheers
> Richard


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