I think indigenous names may be useful for species that have limited
ranges - in the case of the Aus magpie, a species that occurs all round
the country, there would probably be at least 50 different indigenous
names, which one would you choose?
There is also the issue of naming for groups of birds - such as
grasswrens - its handy to have a shared "suffix" such as "grasswren".
Perhaps a species that fits in a class of its own, such as the Plains
Wanderer might be a suitable candidate for having an indigenous name.
Regards, Laurie.
On Friday, July 27, 2007, at 10:20 AM, Robert Gosford wrote:
Dear all,
I've watched this very interesting debate from the sidelines so far
and will now contribute my two cents worth. I think much of it relates
to the colonial legacy so apparent in much of Australian ornithology
and inherited by contemporary birders (in the broadest sense of that
word).
I think that, for whatever reasons, many people have shied away from
addressing this issue because of (a) the regional variation in
(English) common names, and I note there have been some very valuable
discussions here in the past, and (b) the adoption of indigenous names
for birds. As the recent discussion shows, similar sort of concerns as
with English common names persist - this is hardly surprising as at
the time of invasion there were more than 250 languages/dialects
across Australia, many of which are still in use today - so there is
substantial regional variation.
Unfortunately I don't think that this issue has been helped by the
disappointing treatment given to Australian and New Zealand indigenous
names in the various indices of HANZAB and the subsequent publication
by BA, which collected those names in "Some indigenous names of
Australian birds" by John Peter - though I think the introduction
provides a useful starting point for a discussion of indigenous
involvement in Australian ornithology.
This naming issue, like many issues to do with indigenous ornithology
in Australia, has been poorly dealt with and, unlike Tony, I encourage
further debate.
There may be much to learn from the approaches taken to place names in
Australia - particularly here in the NT. In that regard I note the
protocols and policies at the NT Place Names Committee:
http://www.nt.gov.au/lands/lis/placenames/index.shtml, particularly
the following:
"Aboriginal Names
The use of Aboriginal names is encouraged and the collection and
compilation of recorded Aboriginal place names is supported.
Known recorded Aboriginal place names should be made clear where
possible with a historical background, identifying origins etc, more
particularly in their areas of current occupation and traditional
association.
Aboriginal place names from one area should not be applied or
transposed to another.
Where the name of a single feature has been published in both
Aboriginal and English forms and both forms are in general use, the
Board may retain both forms, either of which may be used official.
Dual Names - Aboriginal/Non Aboriginal
A dual naming system or use of alternate/alternative names may be used
for the naming of a physical feature where no official or recorded
name exists and where a name change is not possible or acceptable.
Where a dual name is contemplated, research into the English name and
the known Aboriginal name for the feature must determine which name
should be dominant or have priority for "official use" as compared to
the secondary or alternate name (eg. Uluru/Ayers Rock ).
In any combination of languages, the standard orthography will be
adopted in the use of names from the two cultures and should provide
English generic terms in replacement for Aboriginal generic term where
necessary or possible orthographic adaptations of the name."
Of course these protocols, which are for fixed things like hills and
rivers etc rather than highly mobile birds, don't provide all the
answers - but the might provoke some more considered thought and
approaches to the issue of bird nomenclature than we have seen to > date.
I've been busy with travel, presentations and planning and will get
back to addressing some outstanding issues with the new
Ethnoornithology Special Interest Group (the ESIG) that BA have
decided to host and support and this is one issue that would seem to
me to be appropriate for the ESIG's consideration.
Best and I hope this has moved this valuable discussion along ...
Bob Gosford
Yuendumu, NT
Alan Gillanders wrote:
"However the Kunwinjku names would not be appropriate down here in
Bundjalung country so we need an official common name that is broadly
applicable."
Why not? We use names from all over the place in Bandjalung country.
Alan
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