naturerecordists
[Top] [All Lists]

Re: Question about 44.1 vs 96 kHz

Subject: Re: Question about 44.1 vs 96 kHz
From: "J. Charles Holt"
Date: Sun May 31, 2015 7:54 am ((PDT))
James,

I've been down the rabbit hole before with 24- vs 16-bit, and with music it=
's an imperceptible difference. I suppose when recording quiet nature sound=
s that it could make a difference, so I'll at least give it a try. The M10 =
will go up to 96kHz/24-bit PCM. Looks like I'm gonna need that extra memory=
 card after all. ;)

I'm a member of the Apple Consultants Network, so I was able to get Logic P=
ro X for a very good price. I started playing around with it and gave up on=
 Audacity very quickly. It's an impressive piece of software!

- Charles

(Pardon my terseness or typos, this was sent from my iPhone.)

> On May 31, 2015, at 8:02 AM, James Shatto  [naturerec=
ordists] <> wrote:
>
> The files are 16 bit, I hope that's not what you're recording at for the =
originals.  Using 24 bit is soo much better for things that are quiet.  The=
re's also a bit of natural dynamic range compression with 24 bit (when conv=
erted to 16 bit).  Assuming that your recording device supports it.
>
> Sounds are complex and while most of the sound is in the audible range, t=
here are harmonics that make up the character of the sound.  At low samplin=
g rates like 44.1kHz which maxes out at a theoretical 22,050 Hz you miss ou=
t on a lot of the soundscape.  And since it's sound "samples", there are hi=
gher frequency sounds that get sampled at half their frequency at lower sam=
ple rates which makes things sound muddier.  Most mics are tested for 20Hz =
to 20kHz (assumed averages of human hearing), but they pick up sounds a lot=
 higher than 20kHz.
>
> Editing can reveal certain things.  Notch filter at the dominant 5kHz fre=
quency and the cricket sound basically vanishes.  Which seems to be differe=
nt frequencies between the 44.1kHz and 96kHz samples.  And you can do lowpa=
ss and highpass filters to make the sound fall within the capabilities of y=
our speakers for even less mud.  Which at 96kHz will include a lot of stuff=
 not audible to most humans anyway.  Audacity has these types of filters bu=
ilt into the application.  As will most audio applications designed for edi=
ting.  Mixing any edits with the original can help soften the harshness of =
the edits.
>
> I always try to record at 24 bit and 96Khz since it keeps the editing opt=
ions open.  Although I don't really notice much difference when using low e=
nd gear.  And any deliverables I produce are rarely better than 16 bit and =
Message: 48kHz.  
Subject: I had studio monitors at one time and they did reveal some not very=
 audible things, like the low end rumble of handling noise and even a radio=
 station transmitter that influenced the recording gear.  It was very educa=
tional, but not something that I would use on a regular basis so I sold the=
m.  Plus they made me sad when hearing how badly produced some of my favori=
te tunes had been.
>
> - James
>
>
>
>
> On Sunday, May 31, 2015 1:53 AM, "BinauralBrisbane =
.com [naturerecordists]" <> wrote:
>
>
> 
> Hi, in my experience the difference is similar to taking a high-megapixel=
 RAW photograph or a high-megapixel JPEG- to look at the pictures they both=
 appear the same and basically they are. It's when it comes to editing that=
 you really appreciate the difference.
> A high resolution recording has a lot more information and affords more l=
eeway if you want to quieten unwanted background noise or play around with =
low frequencies etc- to me that's the most important difference.
> If I'm just going to record and not edit I use 44.1kHz or even a high res=
 mp3- to my ears they sound the same.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Tony (Binaural Brisbane)
>
>
>> On 31 May 2015, at 14:51, crystal  [naturerecordists] =
<> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Yes, i did some test a few years ago and everyone whom i asked could tel=
l a difference with bird sounds and       insects. I was surprised. This wa=
s playing it back on a good system.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I got a couple recordings of a creek today using my PCM-M10 and the buil=
t-in mics (using a Rode Dead Kitten for a windscreen). I took one at 44.1 k=
Hz, and another at 96 kHz just to see if I could detect any difference (exp=
ecting the answer to likely be no). To my surprise, not only could I defini=
tely hear a difference, but I can also see a very obvious difference in the=
 spectrogram generated by Izotope RX 4. Here=92s what I=92m seeing (and hea=
ring):
>>
>> .....
>>
>> Note that the recordings are directly from the M10 without any editing.
>>
>> Firstly, I see in the 44.1 kHz recording that the cricket sounds are cre=
ating a very visible band at around 5 kHz with a secondary band at about 5.=
8 kHz. In the 96 kHz recording, the same crickets are now two less distinct=
 bands at 10 kHz and 15 kHz. Can someone explain to me what=92s causing the=
 apparent compression? My expectation was just that I simply would lose the=
 higher frequencies with the lower sampling rate, but that doesn=92t appear=
 to be the case.
>>
>> Based on this result, my impulse is to start recording everything at 96 =
kHz, file size be damned.
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://www.gardenofsensualdelight.com
>> https://soundcloud.com/crystalawareness/tracks
>>
>
>
>
>





<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>
Admin

The University of NSW School of Computer and Engineering takes no responsibility for the contents of this archive. It is purely a compilation of material sent by many people to the naturerecordists mailing list. It has not been checked for accuracy nor its content verified in any way. If you wish to get material removed from the archive or have other queries about the archive e-mail Andrew Taylor at this address: andrewt@cse.unsw.EDU.AU