Hello,
Here in Grandola, Alentejo Portugal exists the bigest cork forest in the wo=
rld, they said, and was man made and much bigger 100 year ago. For species =
is a paradise in birds, mamals, reptils fishes, even insects, and is man ma=
de but they said is very difficult to maintain (they are lying). 200 years =
ago the same forest was six times bigger and was mantained and for the pork=
not for the cork. In the north the comunities existed for 2000 years, with=
comunal equipments, the hunted species where comunal and the land above 10=
00 mts even today is comunal, the comunity respected the nature and all the=
species because the nature was their only university, so they learned from=
all plants and animals, and the fields where made and worked with respect =
to all the species. The problem is not to be man made is exactely the inver=
se to not be man made. I explain, today the cork forest (man made) was chan=
ged first in rice fields and corn fields and recently in industrial olive f=
ields, this is not man made this is economy made.
For 2000 years all the species where respected and protected even when hunt=
ed and the man was sharing is production with the other species. What surpr=
ises me is why are the man made fields, forests and other interventions in =
South Europe so good for all the species and now they are destroing what th=
ey have made so well during 2000 years?
--- In Danny McCarty <> wrote:
>
> Very nicely put Robin.
>
> On Jan 12, 2012, at 10:44 AM, Robin wrote:
>
> > I wrote:
> >
> > > "Surely by now people realise that nothing called
> > > "nature" can possibly exist outside a cultural context?"
> >
> > So John Hartog wrote:
> >
> > > What does that even mean?
> >
> > I take a walk in a local forest and decide to make a recording. The for=
est did not exist before it was constructed by humans, in the literal sense=
that almost no primeval / original forest remains in Europe. All such plac=
es I might choose to occupy are a result of agricultural practices. The wal=
k is along a designated path. Even if I vary from this, the floor of the fo=
rest is very unlike that in an untamed woods, being largely cleared of detr=
itus. If I am very adventurous, I might explore deep thickets that relative=
ly few people have traversed, but even there I might be surprised to find d=
iscarded refuse and (as all in this group are aware) the sonic traces of ov=
erhead aircraft, distant automobiles, water craft, and so on.
> >
> > In my attempt to escape all this and seek a "peaceful", "untouched", "v=
irgin" experience I must remove myself further, but even then can only acco=
mplish my task if I am willing to forget that these concepts are a product =
of particular aesthetic preoccupations, philosophies and artistic movements=
of the past. The very idea of "taking a walk in nature" is a construct.
> >
> > As is the idea of "noise", by the way. One listener's annoyance is anot=
her listener's salve.
> >
> > > Reality cannot exist outside of a cultural context.
> >
> > I am not sure how this argument is furthered by making it so general th=
at it cannot possibly be addressed. I believe your gambit it congruent with=
the "straw man" fallacy.
> >
> > > The word "nature" might however have a specific meaning
> > > in the context of this group.
> >
> > The variety of responses in this thread demonstrates otherwise.
> >
> > I come to a social milieu such as the one provided by this group precis=
ely so my expectations might be challenged. Here I can see/hear from other =
perspectives. I am as happy to hear your coyotes echoing through Oregon as =
I am Mark's icebreaker. Both are part of fictional worlds that have only so=
me vague relationship to lived experience. And none whatsoever to mine. Whi=
ch is precisely why they are worth listening to.
> >
> > -- robinparmar.com
> >
> >
>
> Danny McCarty
> Monolith Media, Inc.
> 4183 Summit View
> Hood River, Or 97031
>
> 415-331-7628
> 541-399-0089 Cell
>
> http://www.monolithmedia.net/
>
> http://www.danielmccarty.com/
>
> http://about.me/yodmc
>
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