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Re: New Soundscapes

Subject: Re: New Soundscapes
From: "hartogj" hartogj
Date: Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:35 pm ((PST))
Hi Mark,

A boat motor, or train, is no different than a car, jet, generator or pump =
noise. It takes very little of that sort of noise to shift the perceived su=
bject from nature sounds to anthopogenic, or human cultural sounds. I have =
no issues with cultural recordings - a recording can be great no matter wha=
t the subject.

A lot of people like train recordings, as well as other nostalgia of simple=
r times - farm, livestock, campfire, folk music - however these are of cult=
ural value not nature sound value.

Some recording artists seem to want to push the nature genre to include ant=
hropogenic sounds by pointing out that humans are part of nature and to edi=
t them out is somehow dishonest. It is not dishonest. Natural soundscapes w=
ithout noticeable anthropogenic noise do still exist, and even if they are =
harder than ever to record, and even if they did no longer exist in real li=
fe, I would consider it  dishonest to an audience as well as disrespectful =
to the past work of nature sound recording artists to try to change the mea=
ning of nature sound in this way.

I have the noticed a shift in your work, Mark, toward more cultural and les=
s purely nature subjects. And though you did catch me off guard (I should h=
ave read the liner notes closer) when I was surprised to hear boat motors i=
n your otherwise immaculate Atlantic Headland album, I think all your recor=
dings you have on your websites are very well composed.

Sometimes there is a fine line between perceived subjects of a recording. W=
hen describe in a nature sound context, one of contrast for instance, anthr=
opogenic content can be very appropriate for this specific Yahoo group. How=
ever, outside of such context when the content is other than nature sound s=
pecific those recordings become off topic for this specific Yahoo group and=
 might find a more welcoming audience elsewhere such as the Phonography Yah=
oo group which is open to a much broader range of recording subjects.

John Hartog
rockscallop.org









> Alas Dan that is indeed the beauty of expression. Some pristine, some not=
.  The motor was an ice breaker 14km offshore, the gravel crunching the sou=
nds of ice rubbing against the shoreline, the rest the quiet lives of the i=
nshore fisherman, working alone or in pairs- a way of life being lost. No c=
ars though, can't stand them, or people or rumbling buildings or jets.
>
> The train, well that one you had to be there to expierience as it came ou=
t of the mist around a bend at midnight far from the nearest town.
> The rest are mostly pristine, it's not a business, if I make back the cos=
t of one microphone in my lifetime I'll be lucky!
>
> I guess you could say it's part nature part documentation, art and phonog=
raphy... My ideas of what we put out there have changed, the pristine, does=
n't exist the way it did, ask Bernie, Martyn or Gordon, Andrew or anyone el=
se. Add up the years spent recording by everyone on the list- how many hour=
s for that one hour of pristine?  editing out the motors which can be done =
with isotope .. For me though it mostly paints a picture that isn't real an=
d gives a false sense of comfort to those who dont get out to listen, perha=
ps a reflection on my mostly negative outlook on where we are going as a sp=
ecies. But I have put out unedited albums of true pristine nature before.
>
> I do find the sounds relaxing, but likely because I can put an image to t=
he moment,
>
> Bad manners, no.. We just have a different idea of what story we want to =
tell and that's ok - but the myth that everything is perfect in the sounsca=
pe of nature is one I think we should be thinking about overcoming  as natu=
re recordists or at least trying to raise awareness.  Have a read of David =
Michaels piece on that. People are asleep at their desks these days and don=
't really experience listening, perhaps he could post it.
>



> Oh the gravel, that was the Atlantic churning rocks over and over with ea=
ch crashing wave. Not the ice. Sorry. Anyway .. I will add the word phonogr=
aphy to the banner, pristine phonography!  I just found of feel that the re=
cordings with motors are now a genuine
> Best
> Mb
>
>
>
> Mark Brennan
>
>
>
> On 2012-01-09, at 9:48 PM, Dan Dugan <> wrote:
>
> > Mark Brennan, you wrote,
> >
> >> I forgot to mention, I should also add that the album does indeed have=
 some
> >> motors in it! For two reasons, firstly because I wanted to paint an au=
dio
> >> picture of what things sound like today, that human noise is very appa=
rent
> >> in the natural soundscape both in a good way but also as noise polluti=
on.
> >> So this is to raise awareness a little but also because I find some of=
 the
> >> sounds interesting and I think they add to the composition if you look=
 at
> >> it as a whole and purely sound for listening pleasure. If you click on=
 the
> >> individual tracks you can read the story behind some of the recordings=
.
> >
> > Thanks for the gift, but forgive my bad manners for looking it in the m=
outh a little=E2=80=A6
> >
> > I heard motors in the seaside recording near the beginning. Then I hear=
d gravel crunching, and didn't know whether it was a car passing or gravel =
in the surf at first. Then there was a train in the night sequence.
> >
> > It used to be that we would stop and curse when human sounds intruded o=
n our recordings. More often now we record through, because our media aren'=
t so limited in length (as tape was), and, as you say, for accurate documen=
tation of the soundscape conditions.
> >
> > I agree that the human sounds are interesting, but I fear they may cut =
the audience for your production down to just a few phonographers. I turn i=
n my raw footage to the parks where I record, for documentation. For artist=
ic works from the same material, I take out the human sounds with editing o=
r filtering. When I listen to nature sounds I just want to hear nature, and=
 I think my taste is pretty typical.
> >
> > De gustibus non disputandum est, but perhaps you might consider that le=
aving anthrophony in seems inconsistent with the subtitle of your web page,=
 "Pristine, downloadable soundscapes of Eastern Canadian nature, for wellne=
ss, relaxation & personal listening."
> >
> > -Dan
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > "While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
> > sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie Kraus=
e.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>








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