Point taken all...
tks
Mark
On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 4:35 PM, hartogj <> wrote:
> **
>
>
> Hi Mark,
>
> A boat motor, or train, is no different than a car, jet, generator or pum=
p
> noise. It takes very little of that sort of noise to shift the perceived
> subject from nature sounds to anthopogenic, or human cultural sounds. I
> have no issues with cultural recordings - a recording can be great no
> matter what the subject.
>
> A lot of people like train recordings, as well as other nostalgia of
> simpler times - farm, livestock, campfire, folk music - however these are
> of cultural value not nature sound value.
>
> Some recording artists seem to want to push the nature genre to include
> anthropogenic sounds by pointing out that humans are part of nature and t=
o
> edit them out is somehow dishonest. It is not dishonest. Natural
> soundscapes without noticeable anthropogenic noise do still exist, and ev=
en
> if they are harder than ever to record, and even if they did no longer
> exist in real life, I would consider it dishonest to an audience as well =
as
> disrespectful to the past work of nature sound recording artists to try t=
o
> change the meaning of nature sound in this way.
>
> I have the noticed a shift in your work, Mark, toward more cultural and
> less purely nature subjects. And though you did catch me off guard (I
> should have read the liner notes closer) when I was surprised to hear boa=
t
> motors in your otherwise immaculate Atlantic Headland album, I think all
> your recordings you have on your websites are very well composed.
>
> Sometimes there is a fine line between perceived subjects of a recording.
> When describe in a nature sound context, one of contrast for instance,
> anthropogenic content can be very appropriate for this specific Yahoo
> group. However, outside of such context when the content is other than
> nature sound specific those recordings become off topic for this specific
> Yahoo group and might find a more welcoming audience elsewhere such as th=
e
> Phonography Yahoo group which is open to a much broader range of recordin=
g
> subjects.
>
> John Hartog
> rockscallop.org
>
> > Alas Dan that is indeed the beauty of expression. Some pristine, some
> not. The motor was an ice breaker 14km offshore, the gravel crunching the
> sounds of ice rubbing against the shoreline, the rest the quiet lives of
> the inshore fisherman, working alone or in pairs- a way of life being los=
t.
> No cars though, can't stand them, or people or rumbling buildings or jets=
.
> >
> > The train, well that one you had to be there to expierience as it came
> out of the mist around a bend at midnight far from the nearest town.
> > The rest are mostly pristine, it's not a business, if I make back the
> cost of one microphone in my lifetime I'll be lucky!
> >
> > I guess you could say it's part nature part documentation, art and
> phonography... My ideas of what we put out there have changed, the
> pristine, doesn't exist the way it did, ask Bernie, Martyn or Gordon,
> Andrew or anyone else. Add up the years spent recording by everyone on th=
e
> list- how many hours for that one hour of pristine? editing out the motor=
s
> which can be done with isotope .. For me though it mostly paints a pictur=
e
> that isn't real and gives a false sense of comfort to those who dont get
> out to listen, perhaps a reflection on my mostly negative outlook on wher=
e
> we are going as a species. But I have put out unedited albums of true
> pristine nature before.
> >
> > I do find the sounds relaxing, but likely because I can put an image to
> the moment,
> >
> > Bad manners, no.. We just have a different idea of what story we want t=
o
> tell and that's ok - but the myth that everything is perfect in the
> sounscape of nature is one I think we should be thinking about overcoming
> as nature recordists or at least trying to raise awareness. Have a read o=
f
> David Michaels piece on that. People are asleep at their desks these days
> and don't really experience listening, perhaps he could post it.
> >
>
> > Oh the gravel, that was the Atlantic churning rocks over and over with
> each crashing wave. Not the ice. Sorry. Anyway .. I will add the word
> phonography to the banner, pristine phonography! I just found of feel tha=
t
> the recordings with motors are now a genuine
> > Best
> > Mb
> >
> >
> >
> > Mark Brennan
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2012-01-09, at 9:48 PM, Dan Dugan <> wrote:
> >
> > > Mark Brennan, you wrote,
> > >
> > >> I forgot to mention, I should also add that the album does indeed
> have some
> > >> motors in it! For two reasons, firstly because I wanted to paint an
> audio
> > >> picture of what things sound like today, that human noise is very
> apparent
> > >> in the natural soundscape both in a good way but also as noise
> pollution.
> > >> So this is to raise awareness a little but also because I find some
> of the
> > >> sounds interesting and I think they add to the composition if you
> look at
> > >> it as a whole and purely sound for listening pleasure. If you click
> on the
> > >> individual tracks you can read the story behind some of the
> recordings.
> > >
> > > Thanks for the gift, but forgive my bad manners for looking it in the
> mouth a little=E2=80=A6
> > >
> > > I heard motors in the seaside recording near the beginning. Then I
> heard gravel crunching, and didn't know whether it was a car passing or
> gravel in the surf at first. Then there was a train in the night sequence=
.
> > >
> > > It used to be that we would stop and curse when human sounds intruded
> on our recordings. More often now we record through, because our media
> aren't so limited in length (as tape was), and, as you say, for accurate
> documentation of the soundscape conditions.
> > >
> > > I agree that the human sounds are interesting, but I fear they may cu=
t
> the audience for your production down to just a few phonographers. I turn
> in my raw footage to the parks where I record, for documentation. For
> artistic works from the same material, I take out the human sounds with
> editing or filtering. When I listen to nature sounds I just want to hear
> nature, and I think my taste is pretty typical.
> > >
> > > De gustibus non disputandum est, but perhaps you might consider that
> leaving anthrophony in seems inconsistent with the subtitle of your web
> page, "Pristine, downloadable soundscapes of Eastern Canadian nature, for
> wellness, relaxation & personal listening."
> > >
> > > -Dan
>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > "While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
> > > sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie
> Krause.
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
--
*Mark A. Brennan
*Canadian Landscape Painter - web <http://www.markbrennanfineart.ca/>
Nature Sounds - web <http://www.wildearthvoices.org/>
mp3 Nature Downloads - web <http://www.naturesound.ca/>
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