evertveldhuis wrote:
> --- In Walter Knapp <> wrot=
e:
>
> <large, but interesting(!) part, cut by Evert>
>
>>The one thing that makes me wonder is your statement that you don't
>>ever expect to need phantom power. Does this mean you are going to
>>stick with low end mics?
>>
>>Walt
>>
>
>
> Walt,
>
> Thanks for the answer! As always, you handle the subject with great
> eye for detail.
>
> As far as phantom power concerns, most of my mics have their own
> supply.
> I do not have that many mics;
> - a Sony ECM-S957 which has its own battery
> - OKM II K S which has its own Preamp with built in 6 V phantom
> - a Telinga Pro V, to be delivered any day now (Klas hurry up!). It
> should have its own power supply built in.
I realize there are quality mics that do have built in power. But
restricting yourself to them leaves things out. In my case it was that
the ME series Sennheisers don't include a figure 8 mic. So, I'd have to
move to MKH to get that. Then you might as well try for the mics
designed to match that mic. It was the figure 8 mic that carted me into
the MKH. And MKH are phantom power only.
> All my other mics are not for outdooruse; they are music mics
> requiring high levels of soundpressure to deafen my ears so you won't
> tell the ringing from the selfnoise :)
> OK, enough jokes.
>
> The MP2 sounds like a very good deal; build for the outdoors (it has
> been tested by dropping on concrete!), build for the pro recordist.
> Its options do attract me. I only wonder if it won't be a waste to
> connect this good device to my consumer MD-recorder; there is always
> a weakest link in your signal path, would having such a very good pre
> be worthy of working together with the Sony MZR-55, or with nowadays
> MD recorders?
I don't know about a good deal, I consider all the low noise pre's to be
overpriced. It's more like a relative good deal.
The MP2 by itself inserted into your current system would probably be a
waste. The Telinga does not need it, I've tried my Sony 957 with it and
as I pointed out it just makes the self noise more clear, the standard
pre in the MD matches the 957's capabilities well.
What you need to do if thinking along these lines is to work out at
least a skeleton of a plan. Start by where you are going, what sort of
things you want to record. Then start looking at the options to do that.
Look at your equipment as a series of links. Building up one link way
above the others will be a waste of money at the time, you may see no
quality gain because something else was the limiting factor. But, if you
intend to build the other links up over time it may make sense. It's
nice if you can set the order so that each step does result in some
immediate improvement. So you need to look at what's limiting.
The pre on the walkman MD is limiting if you have to use it at high
gain. That's where it's own self noise becomes most evident. So, if you
get a mic that provides a stronger signal, so you are recording at less
gain on the pre, you will improve both whatever the mic improvement was
as well as the effect of the pre. This is probably what you will find is
the case going to the Telinga. That's what I found moving to one from my
homemade parabolic. I was using several steps lower gain settings, the
recordings I got improved.
When I next moved to the Portadisc, I got another improvement in
recordings, from the Telinga. The lessor mics I had did not show much
improvement, they were the limiting factor if I used them. For the
Telinga there was more sound quality available than the walkman MD could
capture. There was also the factor that with the Portadisc I moved to
digital transfer to the computer. Only a small improvement, but a
improvement.
I then shifted my emphasis on obtaining better close mics. Since it was
not a pressing issue, I watched for good prices and bought as those
turned up. Which was not the order I would have chosen if money was no
consideration. It also took considerable time.
Now, with good mics, a good recorder, the MP2 fit a needed function. It
does provide a small improvement in my system with the MKH mics. I'm
still finding out how and when that's important. But it's fairly
important in the M/S stereo I'm setting up.
Also, you cannot get around the fact that a separate pre is another lump
with wires going in and out of it. It will increase the annoyance
factor. It's got to have a solid reason to be out there with you.
If you are committed to upgrading your system, my suggestion is make a
plan of sorts. Since the MP2 is not going to do much for your current
system, you really don't have mics that justify it, if it's part of your
plan you have plenty of time to look around and wait for a good price.
Watch Ebay auctions, that sort of thing. Troll around the used equipment
sections of online dealers, that's how I found mine.
Mics are the key in this game. As you have probably realized I'm a
believer that if the mic did not give you good sound, nothing after that
will help. To justify a MP2 you will have to move up in mics. Yet
another thing to start watching prices.
Walt
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>From Tue Mar 8 18:23:10 2005
Message: 13
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 20:16:22 -0500
From: Walter Knapp <>
Subject: Re: Re: Denecke AD20 vs SoundDevices MP2 (not a review)
Rich Peet wrote:
> You probably won't like my oppionion much but that has not slowed it
> much in the past.
>
>>From a guy with a MZ-R55.
> I would not use either of these preamps with it.
> You simply will not gain enough and it is not money well spent.
>
> I differ from Walt a bit as I don't care for field filtering much,
> don't have a complaint with the MZ-R55 a/d converter, and only minor
> complaints about the preamp. The lack of metering is a problem and
> covered only by listening while recording with this unit.=20
I don't differ that much in filtering from you. I mostly use the low end
filtering just when the unwanted rumble and so on get out of hand. I
almost never use limiters. I will only filter when I know what's being
removed I'll never want.
I agree on the a/d and pre, I was not complaining about the a/d in a
walkman in what I said. I read all these complaints, but when you trace
most of them what they are complaining about is you can overload the
pre. It's especially easy for the people recording loud rock concerts to
do this. For nature recording a little care is all it takes to avoid
this problem. Even in recording rock concerts I expect the pre is
overkill. That's not very high quality sound there.
> I want to come home with everything that I can and if filtering is to
> be done it should occur in the computer while editing. I don't see
> problems with the MZ-R55 a/d converters and the problems with the
> preamp should not be fixed with a second stage more expensive than
> the recorder.=20
>
> But then in general I see stereo preamps as two chip circuits in
> todays world and one can build a very good one for under $25.00. But
> please don't ask me to prove it right now as the plate is a bit full
> and sound is just lifes candy to me.
I would say buying a preamp vs making one is a convenience issue as much
as anything. At least if all you need is a simple one. A complex one
like a MP2 is going to be a lot more than two chips. Even a two chip one
still has to have case, connectors, battery holders, etc. I often buy
things I could make simply because I don't care to spend the time making
them, but would like to spend that time on other things.
Walt
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