Ian,
As I mentioned in my previous post, these kinds of debates/questions are
important to raise now and again to encourage banders to reflect on what goals
their effects are achieving.
However, these sorts of emails are not particularly useful as they provide only
opinions and emotions, rather than making a contribution based on evidence.
Take your comparison of the effects of photography to bird banding. Whilst the
effect of a photographer flushing a bird may appear to be minor to the
perpetrator, the repeated effects of these sort of disturbances week after week
by hundreds or thousands of photographers may have profound impacts individual
bird's perception of risk, resulting in changes in its behaviour that can
affect how much it forages and subsequently its reproductive success. So far I
have been 'hand-waving', but there are published studies, for example on
European oystercatchers, that show direct evidence for this. Further, many
studies have demonstrated very clearly that birds with greater perceived risk
suffer negative physiological effects that can reduce survival via a range of
mechanisms. No one is claiming that banding doesn't have some impact on the
particular individuals that are captured and banded, but frequent disturbances
(including walking dogs, etc.) can have impact on tens or hundreds of
individual birds each time a disturbance occurs, and, as a result, change
behavioural patterns at a much larger scale. This effect should not be
under-estimated, or brushed away with a feather duster.
The arguments you put forward are also entirely restricted to waders, whereas
the original posting was about a trip to mallee habitat. There are many good
studies that can demonstrate there is very little long-term impact of banding
on individual birds. In one of my research sites, we have tracked the same
birds year-in year-out building nests, feeding young, and so on with no adverse
effects. For example, of the 63 birds we colour-banded in the initial cohort in
2010, we resighted every single bird multiple times in subsequent years (they
sometimes disappear for months or years, only to mysteriously return - with all
appendages intact). Sure the capturing and banding events were stressful, but
our priority is to minimise the impact of this, and I think our data suggests
we do a very good job of it.
I would be very surprised if banding shorebirds would make any contributions to
the decline of waders. If you are concerned you could request the data from
those involved in the studies and do an analysis on it to provide evidence
either for or against this. Even better, why not fund (or raise money for) a
scholarship for a graduate student to investigate this question in detail by
performing experiments to get at the causal factors?
I was asked by Steve Read for more information by listing published studies.
For the purpose of promoting a constructive debate, I have pasted my reply
below.
One final point is that arguments based around the need for science to have
immediate deliverable impacts (i.e. banding should help save birds) are
extremely detrimental to the future of science (sadly this is the view of our
current government). Almost all the scientific knowledge we have is built up
from discovery science. This is research done to address what can appear as
narrow goals, but is usually framed in a broader set of hypotheses. Thus, what
we should not be asking if 'banding will help save birds', but rather if
'banding will continue to contribute to the knowledge we need to help in the
conservation of birds'. I think the answer to the latter is a resounding YES.
I might close off by indulging in mentioning that while writing this reply, a
Great horned owl has been calling outside my window. Last week it was a Western
screech-owl calling from the same tree.
-----------------------------Dear Steve,I think this is a very good idea, but I
assure you that the literature will be much too large to capture in this
setting. You could start by using Google Scholar and search for the term
"ABBBS". This will bring up many studies that were performed under the
oversight of the Australian bird banding office (about 450 results/studies).
Here's a link: http://goo.gl/KUfhKzOne very good example in the study
population that I work on shows how birds have tracked climate change over many
years. This relies on c. 50 years of bird banding data (link should be to a
PDF):http://goo.gl/OSEFWXIn this population, we now fit each bird with
individually-coded electronic tags that enable us to sample them automatically
across their entire lifetimes, which is opening up a wealth of knowledge about
what they do. Many studies also use colour bands to resight individuals in the
field without having to recapture them. A classic study of this is all the work
that has been done on fairy-wrens (mostly at the ANU): http://goo.gl/ufpa8EI
agree that there should be more interaction between scientists and the general
public to make research findings more available. In the UK now, all
government-funded research has to be published in a way that the results are
freely-accessible by everyone (open-access). However this would still rely on
going out and searching for these studies. As a result, most research funding
now has to justify achieving broader impacts beyond publishing results,
typically associated with making research accessible to the general public.
Thus, I expect that things will improve in the future (maybe not in Australia
as less and less research is funded in the first
place).-----------------------------
> Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2014 16:02:58 +1100
> From:
> To:
> CC: ;
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Re Banding trip to Buddigower Nature Reserve take 2
>
> We are in full agreement about habitat protection however, no matter
> which way I look at it, I just cannot see how banding helps to save any
> bird.
>
> As a friend pointed out to me recently, comparing the impacts of call
> playback and bird photography with the adverse impacts of bird banding,
> canon netting, mist netting and leg flagging etc. is like comparing
> being hit with a feather duster compared to a speeding Mack truck.
>
> Recently I observed a photograph of a small wader with 5 flags and two
> bands. I have seen Curlew Sandpiper with 4 flags. There is a photograph
> circulating of flagged and banded Spoon-billed Sandpiper chicks. It
> might be nice to know everywhere they go but surely such an endangered
> small migratory bird should be protected to migrate unimpeded.. How
> can banding a Spoon-billed Sandpiper chick help save them. More likely,
> these birds are doomed because of their handling and banding.
>
> Many small waders populations are in decline. I remember when
> repeatable counts indicated most small wader populations were stable.
> Red Knots and Curlew Sandpiper were widespread and common. While
> obviously there are habitat protection issues too, dropping numbers of
> these species closely correlate with the period when canon netting and
> leg flagging commenced and the declining numbers correlate too. Just a
> coincidence? I don't think so.
>
> A high percentage (not a small percentage as we have been asked to
> remember) of the Sanderling population in Southern Australia have been
> leg flagged and their declining numbers also correlate closely with
> numbers flagged. 12 months after flagging, retrap rates are minuscule
> and the lost birds cannot be logically explained.
>
> Ian May
> St Helens Tasmania
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> g and Val Clancy wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I have been banding birds since 1971 and as suggested I do think
> > carefully about the pros and cons of this activity. I get sad when I
> > see people suggesting that we know all that we need to know from
> > banding when that is patently not the case. We have only scratched
> > the surface when it comes to our understanding of Australia's birds
> > and their movements. I am glad that people are compassionate enough
> > to be concerned about the birds' welfare as this is paramount in my
> > thoughts as well but please direct your concerns where they really
> > need to be directed - at the people clearing natural ecosystems, at
> > people shooting ducks for sport, at people who have cats and dogs that
> > are allowed to roam and kill our wildlife etc.. I know that some
> > people have witnessed accidents during banding activities and this has
> > coloured their view for life but the rare case where a bird suffers
> > from banding should not mean that it is not a legitimate and humane
> > activity. I hold an animal care and ethics approval for my banding
> > and I am held accountable for any losses. People who do not like
> > birds being banded are entitled to their opinion but, like Martin,
> > please find out all you can about the positives before condemning the
> > people who are giving large amounts of their own time and money to
> > research the birds so that they can be saved. The winter movement of
> > birds such as Grey Fantails, Golden Whistlers, Striated Pardalotes and
> > other species from Tasmania and southern Australia to the north coast
> > of New South Wales and southern Queensland is only now being
> > recognised. We need more banders to track these movements not less
> > banding. Remember banders will only ever band a small percentage of
> > the population of any species but that percentage can provide
> > essential data that cannot be gathered by observation alone. It was
> > banding that proved that the formerly recognised two species of
> > Silvereye in south-eastern Australia were in fact the one species but
> > one type was of Tasmanian origin and the other of local origin. My
> > banding research on the Eastern Osprey, Black-necked Stork, Beach
> > Stone-curlew and Australian Pied Oystercatcher and others has provided
> > essential data required for the management of these threatened
> > species. Banding is not the problem it is an important part of the
> > solution.
> >
> > Regards
> > Greg
> >
> > Dr Greg. P. Clancy
> > Ecologist and Birding-wildlife Guide
> > | PO Box 63 Coutts Crossing NSW 2460
> > | 02 6649 3153 | 0429 601 960
> > http://www.gregclancyecologistguide.com
> > http://gregswildliferamblings.blogspot.com.au/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message----- From: martin cachard
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2014 4:06 PM
> > To: Dr Mark Carey ; geoff jones barra images ;
> >
> > Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Re Banding trip to Buddigower Nature
> > Reserve take 2
> >
> > this is a very interesting thread & I've learnt so much already just
> > from a couple of posts, so thank you so far for these insights into
> > banding.
> >
> > one species I believe which could reveal some interesting findings
> > could be the local breeding canescens race of Black-winged Monarch, a
> > species I've been doing much fieldwork on in recent years...
> > one perplexing question for me is where do they winter when not in
> > Australia??
> > of course some banding would also need to be done in PNG or wherever
> > else we believe this race may winter...
> > I truly wonder???
> >
> > any ideas on doing such a project anyone??
> >
> > cheers,
> > martin cachard,
> > cairns
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> From:
> >> To: ;
> >> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 12:28:39 +1100
> >> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Re Banding trip to Buddigower Nature
> >> Reserve take 2
> >>
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> A good article that explains quite nicely why we should
> >> continue banding and why banding schemes are important!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> http://www.britishbirds.co.uk/article/bird-ringing-still-necessary/
> >>
> >>
> >> Cheers, Mark
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > From:
> >> > To:
> >> > Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 08:50:22 +1100
> >> > Subject: [Birding-Aus] Re Banding trip to Buddigower Nature Reserve
> >> take > 2
> >> >
> >> > In response to Harveys reply I need to apologise to Harvey about
> >> leaving > the
> >> > nets unattended as he has now said that the nets were not opened
> >> before > they
> >> > went off and set up camp and I have already sent a personal email
> >> to > Harvey
> >> > on that subject. But if you had read Harvey's Blog here is an
> >> excerpt > from
> >> > it; " When we arrived at Buddigower, Karen and I set to to get a
> >> few > nets
> >> > up before dusk, in the same area we had banded those four years >
> >> previously,
> >> > then went about the business of setting up camp" This quote is how
> >> I > came
> >> > to that conclusion, however it still does not change my point of
> >> view > about
> >> > banding birds in a local areas, again I ask for what purpose is it
> >> done?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > My personal thoughts are that a bird count done regularly by a
> >> local > bird
> >> > club will give you a considerable amount of information without
> >> putting > the
> >> > birds thru the trauma of being banded. Last Saturday afternoon I >
> >> personally
> >> > observed Sharp-tailed Sandpipers that had recently arrived and were
> >> > vigorously feeding after their annual migration to our shores. They
> >> were
> >> > feeding in one of the ponds near the Burrow Pits at the Western >
> >> Treatment
> >> > Plant and as they struggled to raise their legs in the soft mud I >
> >> couldn't
> >> > help but think that if they had large leg flags on their feet and
> >> that > if
> >> > birds of prey were around, which is quite common at this site, it
> >> could > be
> >> > the difference between life and death for those birds.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Most people now know that the population of waders are dramatically
> >> > dropping
> >> > as many local groups throughout Australian do numerous wader counts
> >> and > that
> >> > information is passed on to the appropriate people and/or
> >> organizations.
> >> >
> >> > So why should we continue to Net, Traumatize and in some cases kill
> >> or > maim
> >> > birds, all for so-called research? I for one think not!
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Kindest Regards
> >> >
> >> > Geoff Jones
> >> >
> >> > Barra Imaging
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ---
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> >> Antivirus > protection is active.
> >> > http://www.avast.com
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