Is there any chance we could see the photo of the wader with five flags, Ian?
What species was it?
Can anyone tell me what the allowable limit is?
Peter Shute
Sent from my iPhone
> On 17 Oct 2014, at 5:03 pm, "Ian May" <> wrote:
>
> We are in full agreement about habitat protection however, no matter
> which way I look at it, I just cannot see how banding helps to save any
> bird.
>
> As a friend pointed out to me recently, comparing the impacts of call
> playback and bird photography with the adverse impacts of bird banding,
> canon netting, mist netting and leg flagging etc. is like comparing
> being hit with a feather duster compared to a speeding Mack truck.
>
> Recently I observed a photograph of a small wader with 5 flags and two
> bands. I have seen Curlew Sandpiper with 4 flags. There is a photograph
> circulating of flagged and banded Spoon-billed Sandpiper chicks. It
> might be nice to know everywhere they go but surely such an endangered
> small migratory bird should be protected to migrate unimpeded.. How
> can banding a Spoon-billed Sandpiper chick help save them. More likely,
> these birds are doomed because of their handling and banding.
>
> Many small waders populations are in decline. I remember when
> repeatable counts indicated most small wader populations were stable.
> Red Knots and Curlew Sandpiper were widespread and common. While
> obviously there are habitat protection issues too, dropping numbers of
> these species closely correlate with the period when canon netting and
> leg flagging commenced and the declining numbers correlate too. Just a
> coincidence? I don't think so.
>
> A high percentage (not a small percentage as we have been asked to
> remember) of the Sanderling population in Southern Australia have been
> leg flagged and their declining numbers also correlate closely with
> numbers flagged. 12 months after flagging, retrap rates are minuscule
> and the lost birds cannot be logically explained.
>
> Ian May
> St Helens Tasmania
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> g and Val Clancy wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I have been banding birds since 1971 and as suggested I do think
>> carefully about the pros and cons of this activity. I get sad when I
>> see people suggesting that we know all that we need to know from
>> banding when that is patently not the case. We have only scratched
>> the surface when it comes to our understanding of Australia's birds
>> and their movements. I am glad that people are compassionate enough
>> to be concerned about the birds' welfare as this is paramount in my
>> thoughts as well but please direct your concerns where they really
>> need to be directed - at the people clearing natural ecosystems, at
>> people shooting ducks for sport, at people who have cats and dogs that
>> are allowed to roam and kill our wildlife etc.. I know that some
>> people have witnessed accidents during banding activities and this has
>> coloured their view for life but the rare case where a bird suffers
>> from banding should not mean that it is not a legitimate and humane
>> activity. I hold an animal care and ethics approval for my banding
>> and I am held accountable for any losses. People who do not like
>> birds being banded are entitled to their opinion but, like Martin,
>> please find out all you can about the positives before condemning the
>> people who are giving large amounts of their own time and money to
>> research the birds so that they can be saved. The winter movement of
>> birds such as Grey Fantails, Golden Whistlers, Striated Pardalotes and
>> other species from Tasmania and southern Australia to the north coast
>> of New South Wales and southern Queensland is only now being
>> recognised. We need more banders to track these movements not less
>> banding. Remember banders will only ever band a small percentage of
>> the population of any species but that percentage can provide
>> essential data that cannot be gathered by observation alone. It was
>> banding that proved that the formerly recognised two species of
>> Silvereye in south-eastern Australia were in fact the one species but
>> one type was of Tasmanian origin and the other of local origin. My
>> banding research on the Eastern Osprey, Black-necked Stork, Beach
>> Stone-curlew and Australian Pied Oystercatcher and others has provided
>> essential data required for the management of these threatened
>> species. Banding is not the problem it is an important part of the
>> solution.
>>
>> Regards
>> Greg
>>
>> Dr Greg. P. Clancy
>> Ecologist and Birding-wildlife Guide
>> | PO Box 63 Coutts Crossing NSW 2460
>> | 02 6649 3153 | 0429 601 960
>> http://www.gregclancyecologistguide.com
>> http://gregswildliferamblings.blogspot.com.au/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: martin cachard
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2014 4:06 PM
>> To: Dr Mark Carey ; geoff jones barra images ;
>>
>> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Re Banding trip to Buddigower Nature
>> Reserve take 2
>>
>> this is a very interesting thread & I've learnt so much already just
>> from a couple of posts, so thank you so far for these insights into
>> banding.
>>
>> one species I believe which could reveal some interesting findings
>> could be the local breeding canescens race of Black-winged Monarch, a
>> species I've been doing much fieldwork on in recent years...
>> one perplexing question for me is where do they winter when not in
>> Australia??
>> of course some banding would also need to be done in PNG or wherever
>> else we believe this race may winter...
>> I truly wonder???
>>
>> any ideas on doing such a project anyone??
>>
>> cheers,
>> martin cachard,
>> cairns
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> From:
>>> To: ;
>>> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 12:28:39 +1100
>>> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Re Banding trip to Buddigower Nature
>>> Reserve take 2
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A good article that explains quite nicely why we should
>>> continue banding and why banding schemes are important!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.britishbirds.co.uk/article/bird-ringing-still-necessary/
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers, Mark
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> From:
>>>> To:
>>>> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 08:50:22 +1100
>>>> Subject: [Birding-Aus] Re Banding trip to Buddigower Nature Reserve
>>> take > 2
>>>>
>>>> In response to Harveys reply I need to apologise to Harvey about
>>> leaving > the
>>>> nets unattended as he has now said that the nets were not opened
>>> before > they
>>>> went off and set up camp and I have already sent a personal email
>>> to > Harvey
>>>> on that subject. But if you had read Harvey's Blog here is an
>>> excerpt > from
>>>> it; " When we arrived at Buddigower, Karen and I set to to get a
>>> few > nets
>>>> up before dusk, in the same area we had banded those four years >
>>> previously,
>>>> then went about the business of setting up camp" This quote is how
>>> I > came
>>>> to that conclusion, however it still does not change my point of
>>> view > about
>>>> banding birds in a local areas, again I ask for what purpose is it
>>> done?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My personal thoughts are that a bird count done regularly by a
>>> local > bird
>>>> club will give you a considerable amount of information without
>>> putting > the
>>>> birds thru the trauma of being banded. Last Saturday afternoon I >
>>> personally
>>>> observed Sharp-tailed Sandpipers that had recently arrived and were
>>>> vigorously feeding after their annual migration to our shores. They
>>> were
>>>> feeding in one of the ponds near the Burrow Pits at the Western >
>>> Treatment
>>>> Plant and as they struggled to raise their legs in the soft mud I >
>>> couldn't
>>>> help but think that if they had large leg flags on their feet and
>>> that > if
>>>> birds of prey were around, which is quite common at this site, it
>>> could > be
>>>> the difference between life and death for those birds.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Most people now know that the population of waders are dramatically
>>>> dropping
>>>> as many local groups throughout Australian do numerous wader counts
>>> and > that
>>>> information is passed on to the appropriate people and/or
>>> organizations.
>>>>
>>>> So why should we continue to Net, Traumatize and in some cases kill
>>> or > maim
>>>> birds, all for so-called research? I for one think not!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Kindest Regards
>>>>
>>>> Geoff Jones
>>>>
>>>> Barra Imaging
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---
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