An unfortunate way to tick a Frogmouth

To: martin cachard <>, greg clancy <>, Laurie Knight <>, carl clifford <>
Subject: An unfortunate way to tick a Frogmouth
From: Nikolas Haass <>
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 22:08:08 +0000
Hi all,

Coming from a conservation side, I am totally with Greg & Martin! Of
course dead specimens are countable as long you can be sure that it got
there naturally, which can be difficult sometimes. So, certainly a record
and therefore tickable. I have never cared about any listing 'rules' (and
will never), except they would follow scientific thinking. I count dead
specimens and any other unequivocal signs of the presence of a certain



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On 10/06/14 7:50 AM, "martin cachard" <> wrote:

>hi Greg,
>it has always amazed me why birders consider a dead specimen to be
>I have always counted such records of mine as tickable, but only if I
>consider that it wasn't carried to where it was found by an unnatural
>the simple way that I look at it (& Greg, your Vanuatu Petrel is THE
>perfect example for my point too!!) is if a dead beach-washed specimen is
>good enough to be recorded as a national record, then why then isn't it
>also good enough to be recorded by the finder on their national list as
>one of their records!!!??
>I think it's pretty simple really, & I've always been puzzled when
>records of dead seabirds for eg are counted as records but observers in
>the main don't tick them...
>it seems very inconsistent to me - a record is a record, surely!!
>cheers ,
>martin cachard,
>> From: 
>> To: ; 
>> Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 07:32:30 +1000
>> CC: 
>> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] An unfortunate way to tick a Frogmouth
>> I have a similar dilemma as I found the only specimen of the Vanuatu
>> ever found in Australia and it constitutes the only record for
>>Australia so 
>> can I tick it?  It was found dead on the roadside north of Port
>> The only Blue Petrel that I have seen was dead on a beach so it is,
>> similarly, not generally considered tickable.  It doesn't really bother
>> as I am not a lister and although I enjoy seeing new species of birds I
>> don't really know what my life total is.
>> Dr Greg. P. Clancy
>> Ecologist and Birding-wildlife Guide
>> | PO Box 63 Coutts Crossing NSW 2460
>> | 02 6649 3153  | 0429 601 960
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Laurie Knight
>> Sent: Monday, June 09, 2014 9:57 PM
>> To: Carl Clifford
>> Cc: Birding Aus
>> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] An unfortunate way to tick a Frogmouth
>> G¹day Carl
>> That depends on what rules you have established for your patch list.
>> in mind, that list rules, like national constitutions, can have
>> Regards, Laurie.
>> On 9 Jun 2014, at 7:04 pm, Carl Clifford <>
>> > I have a guest for the night, a young Tawny Frogmouth which was hit
>>by a 
>> > car on the road outside the house. I have rung WIRES, and they are
>> > to get here tonight, otherwise, if it lasts the night, I will take it
>> > the vet in the morning. It is the first TF I have seen on my local
>> > but have a bit of a moral dilemma as to whether I can tick him.
>> >
>> > Carl Clifford
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