For those of you still awake.
Arwen makes good points. Being an American, I also belong to a
similar group called Birdchat. Here, with the prior permission of
the listowners, it is usually permitted to inform members of the
existence of a project and direct them to a website for further
information. That seems by far the preferable solution, rather than
hijacking a mailing list for uninvited commercial requests.
That said, I am still considering subscribing to the film, but I am
not sure that my good friends at Balangara really want a $33
contribution if it means shipping the DVD to me here in the states.
Eric Jeffrey
Falls Church, VA
USA
-----Original Message-----
From: Arwen B. Ximenes <>
To: greg <>; paul <>; pveerman <
>; mark <>; Birding Aus <
>
Sent: Fri, Nov 18, 2011 10:36 am
Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Balanagara ???
i All,
haven't had time to read all the responses on this topic, I've been
wading
hrough all my spam and unsubscribing left right and center :)
ut seriously:
) this project sounds fantastic for many reasons and I wish them the
best of
uck! I really think they deserve our support.
owever:
) But rather than going to bed which I should have done hours ago,
I'm going to
ip my toes into the debate and put in my two bobs' worth: I totally
disagree
ith the way this film has been marketed (indirectly via Birdingaus),
and I hope
his sort of thing won't be repeated by other companies, and fully
support any
easures to avoid this happening through B-aus in the future; it
surprised me
hat I was getting such chummy sounding emails from complete
strangers and it
eally irks me to be told "You are receiving this email because you
are a friend
nd associate of Balangara Films". That sort of falsehood really
turns me off.
've never met them and my only association with them is that they
now have my
mail address without my permission.
hen I get a chance to look at it properly I'll decide whether to
unsubscribe or
ot.
) I would have been very happy to find out about this over the list
(via the
oderators/list owner) and to then have been given a chance to find
out more by
ubscribing to a list or going to a website. I would hope most people
on this
ist would be interested in the film itself. And let's face it, as
has been
aid, other advertising does occur on this list in one way or another
- but it's
ot like advertising the film "Rio" to gain profits. Correct me if
I'm wrong,
ut there are probably quite a few people who subscribe to this list
who profit
inancially from having their names known (guides, guest houses...) -
I don't
ave a problem with that sort of indirect advertising, in fact I'm
grateful for
t, but it's a blurry line.
egards,
rwen
........................................
rwen Blackwood Ximenes
From:
To: ; ;
;
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 23:59:36 +1100
Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Balanagara ???
Paul and all on BA
Thanks Paul for the helpful insight. Had not intended to cause such
a fuss
and certainly had not intended to maligne Balangra Films. So, let's
just let
it rest now and hope Balangra Films goes about generating in a more
appropriate manner some income for what now appears a good cause.
Greg Little
-----Original Message-----
From:
On Behalf Of Paul G
Dodd
Sent: Friday, 18 November 2011 10:49 PM
To: 'Philip Veerman'; ;
Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Balanagara ???
Philip,
It makes no difference whether the cause is good or not. It makes no
difference whether the project has merit or not. It makes no
difference if
the film is worthwhile or not.
Sending unsolicited email in Australia is illegal. It is as simple
as that.
It contravenes the Spam Act 2003 - and everyone should be aware that
this
law is incredibly strict, and the fines are potentially huge - up to
$1.1million PER DAY for businesses. There are also heavy fines for
individuals breaching this Act also.
Whilst Balangara Films clearly meant well, what they have done
contravenes
the Spam Act and ANY recipient of this email could be justified in
reporting
them to the ACMA.
A good proportion of my business life involves working with
businesses and
ensuring that when they participate in bulk email campaigns they do so
within the law and not outside it. That means that businesses MUST
have a
pre-existing business relationship with the recipients of their
emails - and
this does not include both being members of the same mailing list
(birding-aus). Alternatively, businesses must only send email to
customers
that opt-in to receive email (which is how birding-aus works). All
recipients, regardless of the rule by which they became recipients
must be
able to opt-out of receiving these emails - and there are equally
heavy
fines for disregarding opt-out requests.
I can't find the exact figures, but Spam accounts for an incredibly
high
proportion of email sent in the world and a huge amount of money is
wasted
each year in attempting to prevent Spam, and in dealing with the
consequences of Spam. It is not a trivial matter.
Putting the legalities aside for the moment, I am sure that none of
us like
receiving unsolicited email - and I must say that I particularly
don't like
receiving unsolicited email asking me for money.
The correct approach here would have been to write to the list owner
(Russell) and ask him if it was OK to publish some information about
the
project and the film and to ask the list subscribers to opt-in to
Balangara's mailing list if they were interested in finding out
more. Once
people had opted-in, Balangara could have sent out their email to the
subscribers.
And I'm sorry Mark, but to give the sending of unsolicited mail a
clever-sounding name like "crowd funding" is simply hiding behind
those
words - unsolicited email in any form whatsoever is Spam. I am not
opposed
to the idea of raising money for a worthwhile project by collecting
small
amounts from many people (which really is what "crowd funding" is),
but it
must be done legally.
My advice to Russell, the birding-aus list owner, will be to add
some terms
and conditions to the birding-aus.org web site that specifically
disallow
the collection of email addresses from birding-aus for the purpose of
sending unsolicited emails directly to the members of birding-aus and
bypassing the birding-aus moderation system.
Paul Dodd
Docklands, Victoria
-----Original Message-----
From:
On Behalf Of Philip
Veerman
Sent: Friday, 18 November 2011 5:46 PM
To: 'Graeme Stevens'; ;
Subject: [Birding-Aus] Balanagara ???
Hello All,
About this: It is clear from David Stowe that the unsubscribing from
their
email list does not unsubscribe from birding-aus. So please let go
of that
one. That is just something in the way they have named their list.
I am not in any way associated with Balanagara (other than having
corresponded minimally about Lyrebird behaviour) but congratulate
them on
their intent to make a film of the Lyrebird. To me, this promotional
message
seems like a well targeted, nicely presented, generous and innovative
marketing and promotions of what hopefully will be a nice production
on a
subject that I hope many of us would be interested in. It appears that
obtaining email addresses via birding aus (if that is what has
happened and
I don't know how) is of concern and not the right thing to do, but
given its
relevance to my interests, it is something I am more happy about than
bothered about.
I for one am disappointed and rather embarrassed by the negativity
this
promotion has received. I expect the guidelines for birding-aus
include that
it is not for primarily commercial purposes - though this is
borderline such
a use. I do not see this as any worse (or even different) from people
advertising the dates, arrangements and costs of the next pelagic
bird trips
or seeking sponsorship for bird twitching contest or telling us in an
encouraging way about the latest Hoopoe or Grey-headed Lapwing, in a
way
that encourages us to spend vastly more money, if we wish to see it.
And I
don't object to those messages either.
I am more concerned about what the film will say / show. If I ever
get to
see the film I would happily review it as wonderful if it is, or if
it is
crap or gives false information I would offer that opinion too. The
message
so far is simply bringing to notice a new project and product and
ask likely
people to maybe sponsor it. I would like to think that many of our
community
who can do so, will sponsor it. It should promote bird knowledge and
maybe
conservation, using a species that is by any standard a very special
bird
that can add a lot to public awareness of birds.
Philip
-----Original Message-----
From:
On Behalf Of Graeme
Stevens
Sent: Friday, 18 November 2011 4:59 PM
To: ; ;
Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Fwd: Balanagara ???
Can but agree - quite annoying- and particularly offensive that when
you try
to unsubscribe you are "unsubscribed" from birding-aus.Very poor
form if
genuinely seeking support.Graeme > Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 15:14:30
+1100
From:
To: ;
Subject: [Birding-Aus] Fwd: Balanagara ???
I am forwarding this mail and the thread to Balangara - perhaps they
can explain how they came to spam us all?
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