Hi All,
I haven't had time to read all the responses on this topic, I've been wading
through all my spam and unsubscribing left right and center :)
But seriously:
1) this project sounds fantastic for many reasons and I wish them the best of
luck! I really think they deserve our support.
However:
2) But rather than going to bed which I should have done hours ago, I'm going
to dip my toes into the debate and put in my two bobs' worth: I totally
disagree with the way this film has been marketed (indirectly via Birdingaus),
and I hope this sort of thing won't be repeated by other companies, and fully
support any measures to avoid this happening through B-aus in the future; it
surprised me that I was getting such chummy sounding emails from complete
strangers and it really irks me to be told "You are receiving this email
because you are a friend and associate of Balangara Films". That sort of
falsehood really turns me off. I've never met them and my only association with
them is that they now have my email address without my permission.
When I get a chance to look at it properly I'll decide whether to unsubscribe
or not.
3) I would have been very happy to find out about this over the list (via the
moderators/list owner) and to then have been given a chance to find out more by
subscribing to a list or going to a website. I would hope most people on this
list would be interested in the film itself. And let's face it, as has been
said, other advertising does occur on this list in one way or another - but
it's not like advertising the film "Rio" to gain profits. Correct me if I'm
wrong, but there are probably quite a few people who subscribe to this list who
profit financially from having their names known (guides, guest houses...) - I
don't have a problem with that sort of indirect advertising, in fact I'm
grateful for it, but it's a blurry line.
Regards,
Arwen
.........................................
Arwen Blackwood Ximenes
> From:
> To: ; ; ;
>
> Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 23:59:36 +1100
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Balanagara ???
>
> Paul and all on BA
>
> Thanks Paul for the helpful insight. Had not intended to cause such a fuss
> and certainly had not intended to maligne Balangra Films. So, let's just let
> it rest now and hope Balangra Films goes about generating in a more
> appropriate manner some income for what now appears a good cause.
>
> Greg Little
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> On Behalf Of Paul G Dodd
> Sent: Friday, 18 November 2011 10:49 PM
> To: 'Philip Veerman'; ;
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Balanagara ???
>
> Philip,
>
> It makes no difference whether the cause is good or not. It makes no
> difference whether the project has merit or not. It makes no difference if
> the film is worthwhile or not.
>
> Sending unsolicited email in Australia is illegal. It is as simple as that.
> It contravenes the Spam Act 2003 - and everyone should be aware that this
> law is incredibly strict, and the fines are potentially huge - up to
> $1.1million PER DAY for businesses. There are also heavy fines for
> individuals breaching this Act also.
>
> Whilst Balangara Films clearly meant well, what they have done contravenes
> the Spam Act and ANY recipient of this email could be justified in reporting
> them to the ACMA.
>
> A good proportion of my business life involves working with businesses and
> ensuring that when they participate in bulk email campaigns they do so
> within the law and not outside it. That means that businesses MUST have a
> pre-existing business relationship with the recipients of their emails - and
> this does not include both being members of the same mailing list
> (birding-aus). Alternatively, businesses must only send email to customers
> that opt-in to receive email (which is how birding-aus works). All
> recipients, regardless of the rule by which they became recipients must be
> able to opt-out of receiving these emails - and there are equally heavy
> fines for disregarding opt-out requests.
>
> I can't find the exact figures, but Spam accounts for an incredibly high
> proportion of email sent in the world and a huge amount of money is wasted
> each year in attempting to prevent Spam, and in dealing with the
> consequences of Spam. It is not a trivial matter.
>
> Putting the legalities aside for the moment, I am sure that none of us like
> receiving unsolicited email - and I must say that I particularly don't like
> receiving unsolicited email asking me for money.
>
> The correct approach here would have been to write to the list owner
> (Russell) and ask him if it was OK to publish some information about the
> project and the film and to ask the list subscribers to opt-in to
> Balangara's mailing list if they were interested in finding out more. Once
> people had opted-in, Balangara could have sent out their email to the
> subscribers.
>
> And I'm sorry Mark, but to give the sending of unsolicited mail a
> clever-sounding name like "crowd funding" is simply hiding behind those
> words - unsolicited email in any form whatsoever is Spam. I am not opposed
> to the idea of raising money for a worthwhile project by collecting small
> amounts from many people (which really is what "crowd funding" is), but it
> must be done legally.
>
> My advice to Russell, the birding-aus list owner, will be to add some terms
> and conditions to the birding-aus.org web site that specifically disallow
> the collection of email addresses from birding-aus for the purpose of
> sending unsolicited emails directly to the members of birding-aus and
> bypassing the birding-aus moderation system.
>
> Paul Dodd
> Docklands, Victoria
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> On Behalf Of Philip Veerman
> Sent: Friday, 18 November 2011 5:46 PM
> To: 'Graeme Stevens'; ;
> Subject: [Birding-Aus] Balanagara ???
>
> Hello All,
>
> About this: It is clear from David Stowe that the unsubscribing from their
> email list does not unsubscribe from birding-aus. So please let go of that
> one. That is just something in the way they have named their list.
>
> I am not in any way associated with Balanagara (other than having
> corresponded minimally about Lyrebird behaviour) but congratulate them on
> their intent to make a film of the Lyrebird. To me, this promotional message
> seems like a well targeted, nicely presented, generous and innovative
> marketing and promotions of what hopefully will be a nice production on a
> subject that I hope many of us would be interested in. It appears that
> obtaining email addresses via birding aus (if that is what has happened and
> I don't know how) is of concern and not the right thing to do, but given its
> relevance to my interests, it is something I am more happy about than
> bothered about.
>
> I for one am disappointed and rather embarrassed by the negativity this
> promotion has received. I expect the guidelines for birding-aus include that
> it is not for primarily commercial purposes - though this is borderline such
> a use. I do not see this as any worse (or even different) from people
> advertising the dates, arrangements and costs of the next pelagic bird trips
> or seeking sponsorship for bird twitching contest or telling us in an
> encouraging way about the latest Hoopoe or Grey-headed Lapwing, in a way
> that encourages us to spend vastly more money, if we wish to see it. And I
> don't object to those messages either.
>
> I am more concerned about what the film will say / show. If I ever get to
> see the film I would happily review it as wonderful if it is, or if it is
> crap or gives false information I would offer that opinion too. The message
> so far is simply bringing to notice a new project and product and ask likely
> people to maybe sponsor it. I would like to think that many of our community
> who can do so, will sponsor it. It should promote bird knowledge and maybe
> conservation, using a species that is by any standard a very special bird
> that can add a lot to public awareness of birds.
>
> Philip
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> On Behalf Of Graeme Stevens
> Sent: Friday, 18 November 2011 4:59 PM
> To: ; ;
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Fwd: Balanagara ???
>
> Can but agree - quite annoying- and particularly offensive that when you try
> to unsubscribe you are "unsubscribed" from birding-aus.Very poor form if
> genuinely seeking support.Graeme > Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 15:14:30 +1100
> > From:
> > To: ;
> > Subject: [Birding-Aus] Fwd: Balanagara ???
> >
> > I am forwarding this mail and the thread to Balangara - perhaps they
> > can explain how they came to spam us all?
> >
>
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