Ashmore Reef Whales and Seabirds

To: Birding Aus <>
Subject: Ashmore Reef Whales and Seabirds
From: L&L Knight <>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 13:41:34 +1000
I would say that if someone [who knows their "business"] organises and leads a trip at cost price [no net profit] then the people who go along are getting a good deal - particularly if the itinerary is logistically difficult and/or the birds are hard to locate. I doubt I would ever get to bird around the Torres Strait Islands or the Canning Stock Route etc on my own ...

Regards, Laurie.

On 18/06/2008, at 12:18 PM, Jeff Davies wrote:

Hello Tim, I think you hit the nail on the head when you said birding can be "very very expensive". If a small number of birders are motivated enough to organise trips at cost and go through all of the logistical stuff to make it happen without a profit margin factored in, then the limiting factor of how many of these trips they organise would be how many they can personally afford to go on. If they deduct the cost of their involvement then they will in theory be able to organise a greater number of trips which if at cost price would be of obvious benefit to other birders. These trips are often to locations not well served by the commercial companies. The bottom line is does it benefit other birders, I suspect yes. I personally have no idea how any of these trips are set up and have no vested interest in any of them.

Cheers Jeff.

-----Original Message-----
 On Behalf Of Tim Dolby
Sent: Wednesday, 18 June 2008 11:33 AM
To: Simon Mustoe; 
Subject: RE: [Birding-Aus] Ashmore Reef Whales and Seabirds

Yes, excellent points Simon, well said, and thanks for your honest reply. I couldn't agree more. As mentioned I have absolutely no problem with the Ashmore Reef trips, or anybody who organises them, or for that matter any other organised birding trips. Birding trips are what birding is all about - and for whatever reason - whether it's data collection or just pure birding

This was not the reason I replied to your message. The reason I replied was
because you contextualised it in terms of 'commercial' versus
'non-commercial' birding.

My problem is (and it's a bit of a personal gripe, apologies everyone and Simon for the whinge) when birders try to get other people to pay for their birding trips, whether in Australian waters or to overseas destinations (such as South America), often under the guise of trip sharing rather than commercialisation. You mention that as long as people are honest and don't take the proverbial there's no problem. I couldn't agree more. However what
about when people are taking the proverbial. From personal experience
birding is very addictive. It can also be a very very expensive. As a
result, like anything else, it is open to potential bad practice. Although, as you pointed out, rather than being a negative, there may be some merit in


Ps. if anybody wants to send me negative reponses send it to me personally.

PPs. I might change the topic. Anybody seen any good birds today? My most
interesting bird for the day so far is Scaly-breasted Lorikeet.


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