So basically they want you to be able to tell them where to be to
witness the next offence? That might work when both birder and owner
have a regular schedule that coincides, but what tiny percentage of
cases is that going to cover?
Your example demonstrates the problem - the dogs concerned are now
presumably doing the same thing somewhere else or possibly just at a
different time. Any why wait till breeding season with the new ones?
Peter Shute
wrote on :
> Hi Dave and Peter,
>
> Thanks for your responses, I deeply appreciate hearing that
> others care about the local wild-life and are doing something
> to help. Peter, many sympathies for the waders and their
> nests that you mentioned. What a terrible shame.
>
> Dave, my experience with the local council has not been too
> bad. Last year I rang the local council (in the Brisbane
> area) about the lack of signs and some suspected local dog
> attacks on fledgling wild birds. I learned that the council
> will enforce the fines if a member of the public contacts
> them, giving them details such as the location of the
> off-leash dog's walking path, times that the offense occurs,
> etc. I believe that the dog owners are indeed approached
> (within the week, the council said) and most probably fined.
>
> In any case, the dogs I was becoming very concerned about
> during the fledgling season have disappeared from my area,
> for some months now. They have been since replaced by several
> regulars, so I guess I'll have to make another call around
> breeding season. I can't think of anything else to do aside
> from hassling dog owners myself, which I don't feel comfortable doing.
>
> Keep up the good work, Dave.
>
> Cheers
> Belinda
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> On Feb 19, 2008 9:52 AM, Dave Torr <> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Belinda.
>>
>> I agree that we have to communicate not just with dog clubs but also
>> with councils - some are better than others at designating various
>> types of dog areas (off-lead, on-lead and banned) and some are better
>> than others at enforcing the rules. Our local council has in theory a
>> fine selection of on-lead and off-lead areas but in 4 years of living
>> here (mostly with my dogs on lead for various reasons) I have yet to
>> see anyone enforce the rules. Like it or not dog owners (most of
>> them) pay license fees and so probably have more clout with councils
>> than birders!
>>
>> And it is not just councils of course - National Parks are an area
>> where I often see illegal dogs and few rangers!
>>
>> On 19/02/2008, Belinda Cassidy <> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Dave,
>>>
>>> One thing leaps out at me in my local area, which is rich with local
>>> birdlife, is the lack of signage around parks and council forests,
>>> indicating that they are not to be used as off-leash areas for dogs.
>>> The signs need not be alienating or rude; and could indicate the
>>> following:
>>>
>>> -The fines involved
>>> -That the area is policed by the local council.
>>> -That local bird-life and other native wild-life breed here and are
>>> vulnerable to death via dog attacks. (and may be endangered) -The
>>> nearest off-leash dog walking area -Thank the dog owner in advance
>>> for their care and concern for local wildlife.
>>>
>>> Those are just some thoughts. Most Dog owners who run their dogs
>>> off-leash are caring animal lovers, and that is why they give their
>>> dogs a run rather than keep them couped up in little yards.
>>>
>>> Keep up the good work Dave. Its wonderful to hear what you are
>>> doing for our wild-life.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 18, 2008 8:51 PM,
> <> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Send birding-aus mailing list submissions to
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>>>>
>>>> T
>>>>
>>>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> ----
>>>>
>>>> Message: 1
>>>> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:45:17 +1100
>>>> From: "Dave Torr" <>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] of companion animals and wildlife -
>>>> especiallyoftheendangered variety
>>>> To: "Peter Shute" <>
>>>> Cc: Birding-aus <>
>>>> Message-ID:
>>>>
>>>> <>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>>>
>>>> Wearing my "hat" as a director of BOCA (Bird Observation and
>>>> Conservation Australia - www.birdobservers.org.au) I am pleased to
>>>> be able to report that we have decided to look in detail at what
>>>> we - as a national organisation - can do. Some of our branches
>>>> have already been working on local initiatives and I hope that we
>>>> can develop a plan in consultation with the major
>>> dog
>>>> clubs that will help to improve the situation.
>>>>
>>>> If anyone has any detailed thoughts about the matter which might
>>>> be of
>>> use
>>>> to us in developing our plans then I would love to hear from them.
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> On 18/02/2008, Dave Torr <> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> OK - I misunderstood your reference to "The survival of the very
>>>>> occasional locally rare bird that's common further north. The
>>>>> possible recolonisation (if that's a word) of the area by this
>>>>> and other
>>> unknown
>>>>> species.".
>>>>> It is very hard to justify a big campaign to protect a vagrant.
>>>>> It is easy to justify one to protect rare endemics. And I think
>>>>> most suburban parks are not the key areas - I'd rather protect
>>>>> areas with
> rare birds. I
>>> don't
>>>> think
>>>>> you'll ever get people to stop letting their dog off
> lead in the
>>> local
>>>> park
>>>>> (whatever the council rules!) as it is hard to justify that they
>>>>> might disturb Red Wattlebirds (for example). If there is such a a
>>>>> campaign
>>> it
>>>>> needs to focus on specific species and specific areas - if you
>>>>> say
>>> "you
>>>>> shouldn't let your dog off anywhere" you will fail. If you say
>>>>> "it
>>> is
>>>>> important that you don't let your dog off here at this time of
>>>>> year
>>>> because
>>>>> of Hooded Plovers but there is a good spot for your dog 2 km
>>>>> away) you MIGHT influence a few people.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 18/02/2008, Peter Shute <> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dave Torr wrote on Monday, 18 February 2008 10:43 AM:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think there is a lot more at stake for us (and I speak as
>>>>>>> a
>>> dog
>>>>>>> owner!). Dogs threaten species like the Hooded Plover and
>>>>>>> the
>>> Fairy
>>>>>>> Tern on their nesting grounds - both are endangered endemics (I
>>>>>>> think??) and rely heavily on undisturbed coastal areas.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes but to a non-birders these are the "unknown species" I
>>>>>> referred to. They're either invisible or look like seagulls to
>>>>>> non-birders. You'd have to convince them not only that these
>>>>>> species either already
>>> exist
>>>>>> in the area or might return to it, but that it's important that
>>>>>> they do. I was also thinking more about suburban parks than that
>>>>>> kind of
>>>> habitat.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am not sure what sort of "Agreement" we could have - I think
>>>>>>> all we can do is spread the message that dogs and birds do not
>>>>>>> mix well
>>> and
>>>>>>> whilst this may not matter too much in some areas in others
>>>>>>> it
>>> is
>>>>>>> critical to the species survival. I would point out that
>>>>>>> horses
>>> and
>>>>>>> 4WD on beaches are also large threats to these species!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was thinking initially that we'd need the agreement of
>>>>>> whoever
>>> runs
>>>>>> these clubs in order to even start getting our views through
>>>>>> to
>>> their
>>>>>> members via their newsletters, etc. I would imagine there
>>>>>> might
>>> be a
>>>>>> bit of a seige mentality to get past.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As a not entirely relevant example, here's a quote from the
>>>>>> secretary of a motorcycle club from the article in yesterday's
>>>>>> Age about the
>>>> proposed
>>>>>> outer ring road being discussed in another thread: "We have
>>>>>> already lost one track used by the club for 30 years because an
>>>>>> environmental impact statement found the legless lizard and
>>>>>> golden
>>> sun
>>>>>> moth there," said Ms Heaney.
>>>>>> "Now they want to build a freeway through it?"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Peter Shute
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ===============================
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