From: Dave Torr <>
Reply-To: Dave Torr <>
To: Margaret Roadknight <>
CC:
Subject: Re: FW: Re: [BIRDING-AUS] Birds in Chile
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 13:25:46 +1100
Someone raised the issue to them as to whether birds seen in Embassies
could count on their US list and they - after some thought - siad no.
I guess - given that people like to have totals for "countries" that
it will come up periodically in any country that has any overseas
possesions or territories. As you say, we are relatively simple as we
occupy all of a single landmass that is a long way from anywhere else.
Our New Zealand friends are in a similar position of course.
On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 12:48:23 +1100, Margaret Roadknight
<> wrote:
> I don't understand why the ABA would "officially reject" this as an
"issue".
> Is it really that contentious? I guess it must be, especially in other
> countries that are not fortunate enough to be continents.
>
> I think Australia has the luxury of being one of the few "countries"
that
> could have a genuine "country (Australian) list". We are a
continent...why
> include areas that are not part of Australian continental land-mass and
that
> are related to Australia only in a political sense? Is birding not more
an
> environment-motivated hobby than a political-motivated one?
>
> I think the argument of embassies / territories is an academic one.
>
> >From: Dave Torr <>
> >Reply-To: Dave Torr <>
> >To: Margaret Roadknight <>
> >CC:
> >Subject: Re: FW: Re: [BIRDING-AUS] Birds in Chile
> >Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 14:01:25 +1100
> >
> >So long as we are consistent!
> >
> >Just consider what would happen if you were in France - as far as I
> >know they consider all their overseas "territories" to be an integral
> >part of France (which is why they claimed that testing bombs in the
> >Pacific was the same as testing them in Europe - it's all part of
> >France!) so you could get a really long list for France on that basis!
> >
> >Further research reveals that embassies are legally regarded as
> >"territory" of the country that runs them (which is why you can claim
> >asylum by going into an embassy) so if we did include the 50+
> >embassies/high commisions that we have you could get quite a large
> >list!
> >
> >On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 13:44:04 +1100, Margaret Roadknight
> ><> wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > Yes, I agree that including embassies is pushing things a little!!
It is
> > > simply too difficult to regulate or define. We'd all be going crazy
> >visiting
> > > embassies!!
> > >
> > > I think that Tony Palliser's definition includes "territories", not
just
> >any
> > > political ground, such as embassies. Even this seems puzzling to me,
as
> > > birds seen on Christmas or Heard Islands are probably just as
attached
> >to
> > > Australian ecological boundaries as Santiago!!
> > >
> > > Perhaps the limits should be defined more by bio-regional
boundaries.
> >The
> > > best 'Australian list' would be defined by the continental shelf
(hence
> > > including all the major offshore islands) and the 200NM limit for
> >oceanic
> > > birds. But then there is the difficulty in Northern Australia, where
the
> > > shelf pretty much joins PNG etc.
> > >
> > > Margaret
> > >
> > > >From: "Graham Labrooy" <>
> > > >To:
> > > >Subject: FW: Re: [BIRDING-AUS] Birds in Chile
> > > >Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 12:33:51 +1000
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>From: Dave Torr <>
> > > >>Reply-To: Dave Torr <>
> > > >>To: Graham Labrooy <>
> > > >>CC:
> > > >>Subject: Re: [BIRDING-AUS] Birds in Chile
> > > >>Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 12:50:10 +1100
> > > >>
> > > >>The only "official" list that I know of for checking Aussie
birders'
> > > >>totals is http://users.bigpond.net.au/palliser/pelagic/totals.html
> > > >>maintained by Tony Palliser, so if you aspire to post your total
for
> > > >>others to see then you would need to adhere to his rules - and I
guess
> > > >>he excludes embassies.
> > > >>
> > > >>Irrespctive of what the "legal" status if an embassy is (I did a
quick
> > > >>Google but could not find an answer) I think you will find most
> > > >>birders would not include them.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 11:42:07 +1000, Graham Labrooy
> > > >><> wrote:
> > > >> > Hi there,
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I posted a message a while back about Australian lists. I have
just
> > > >>returned
> > > >> > from a visit to Santiago, Chile, where I was able to visit the
> > > >>Australian
> > > >> > embassy, in Las Condes. Although the weather was poor I managed
to
> > > >>identify
> > > >> > Austral thrush, Picui Ground Dove, Eared Dove and Southern
Lapwing
> > > >>whilst
> > > >> > there. Apart from adding to my (very limited) Chilean-list, do
> >these
> > > >>birds
> > > >> > qualify for an Australian list as well?? It is Australian soil
is
> >it
> > > >>not?
> > > >> > Political territory??
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Maybe I am way off the mark, but I would like to know what is
> >standard,
> > > >>as I
> > > >> > am only new to birding in Australia.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Thanking you in advance (and thank you to Russell for his reply
> >last
> > > >>time),
> > > >> > Graham
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
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