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Re: FR-2LE & AT4022

Subject: Re: FR-2LE & AT4022
From: "vickipowys" vpowys
Date: Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:26 am ((PST))
Paul, Rob and All,

This was a very interesting comparison and I recall that I spent ages
analyzing both clips in uncompressed format when they were first
edited for the AudioWings CD in 2008.  At that time, and again in
listening now, for some obscure reason I prefer listening to Paul's
recording made with his parallel boundary rig.  There was a sharpness
in Andrew's recording that put me a little bit on edge.  Nothing
scientific here, just the listening experience.  I also hear in these
new samples more fizz-hiss in Andrew's version, which I find somewhat
unpleasant.  No idea why that hiss occurs, because the SD 722 and the
MKH 20s should actually be giving less noise than Paul's set up?  The
noise in Paul's recording is more comfortable to my ears, somehow.

Could the recording levels of the two recorders have been set
differently, to account for the different noise levels?  Andrew
thought that the SASS produced 3 dB boost in some of the birdsong
frequencies, due to the reflective nature of the SASS housing.
Perhaps this accounts for the 'sharpness' of some of the bird
sounds?  Or maybe the fact that Andrew's mics were pointed slightly
upwards gave different coloration to the sound, or even more hiss
which perhaps is environmental (wind-in-leaves i.e.)?

Mind you, both recordings are just wonderful and thank you so much to
Paul and Andrew for sharing their recordings and for their efforts in
producing this comparison.  I am a great fan of both recordists!  And
thanks Paul for sharing with naturerecordists via the AWSRG web page.

Vicki Powys




On 13/03/2010, at 10:30 AM, Paul Jacobson wrote:

> Hi Paul
>
> I wrote a short article on a side by side comparison recording of
> SASS and parallel boundary rigs which was published in the December
> 2008 issue of AudioWings (Vol 11, No. 2). The recordings were made
> by Andrew Skeoch and myself in late 2008. The comparison was done
> with our rigs set up side by side with around 2 metres spacing.
> There was minimal post processing done - gain was matched and it
> looks like a 50hz high pass filter was applied.
>
> Reading the article again and listening to the recordings I'm not
> sure I would have made the same comments.  There are lots of
> variables at play in the comparison but it might give you an idea
> of some of the differences in presentation between SASS and
> headspaced parallel boundary array.
>
> I'm in the process of reworking the design of the AWSRG site at the
> moment and haven't finalised the format for online journal articles
> so you'll have to excuse the presentation and rough edges.
>
> http://www.awsrg.org.au/audiowings/vol11/no2/notes-two-stereo-rigs
>
> cheers
> Paul
>
> On 12/03/2010, at 10:25 AM, "thesilverloon"
> <> wrote:
>
>> Thanks David,
>> Its my intention to use twin AT4022 mics with the Sony PCM M-10
>> and the Art Phantom 11 power supply. I would like to build a
>> spaced timber baffle, to mount the mics. Are you able to tell me
>> on the rig that you used, the distance between the mics, and the
>> setback from the leading edge?
>> I realize that there are many variations out there, but being non
>> tech I have to start some where. If anyone else in this group has
>> built similar, please feel free to respond. One last question.
>> What is the audio difference between the above and using the
>> AT4022's in a modified Crown SASS unit?
>>
>> Many Thanks,
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> --- In  David Michael
>> <> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm glad you stumbled on those recordings for A Deep Forest Creek, I
>>> was going to post something back to the list sooner or later ...
>>> The project was produced during the Mamori Sound Project artist
>>> residency/workshop this past winter. It is a phenomenal
>>> opportunity to
>>> record in the tropics and something that many of you on list would
>>> probably enjoy. The program is extremely well organized and
>>> thoughtful.
>>> http://malab.net
>>>
>>> The recording profiles a day in one particular location of the
>>> Brasilian Amazon, and as such has a running time of 19+ hours.
>>> One of
>>> the goals of recording at this duration was to reveal some of the
>>> circadian sound structures of the forest. These structures are
>>> easier
>>> to describe in words that to listen to, but I find it an interesting
>>> challenge for the listener to discover them. I have listened to the
>>> recording dozens of times and still hear new things. The original
>>> recording was made in 4 channels (2 stereo) spaced about 10
>>> meters or
>>> so. I used a pair of AT4022s (unmatched) and a Sennheiser 30/40 MS
>>> array. There are other details on the site. For the moment, I have
>>> unlinked the downloadable copy to minimize bandwidth costs.
>>>
>>> If those of you reading this would like a copy of the entire 19 hour
>>> recording, please contact me off list.
>>> I was planning on producing a small edition of pre-loaded mp3
>>> players
>>> with a choice of either a creek view (4022s) or a forest view (MKH
>>> 30/40). They will not be expensive.
>>>
>>> As Paul mentioned, there are shorter excerpts that are mostly
>>> organized on my SoundCloud pages - you should be able to download
>>> those in full resolution. The only processing I did on that
>>> recording
>>> was equalization and light soft-knee limiting. Without equalization,
>>> the "veil of insects" was overwhelming and did not match the
>>> listening
>>> environment, that is to say that the microphones "hear" in ways my
>>> ears did not.
>>>
>>> All of the following recordings were made with AT4022s in a spaced
>>> wooden baffle copied from designs by Curt Olson.
>>>
>>> http://soundcloud.com/dmichael/frogs-and-toads-a-deep-forest-creek
>>> http://soundcloud.com/dmichael/dawn-a-deep-forest-creek
>>> http://soundcloud.com/dmichael/tinkling-frogs-a-deep-forest-creek
>>>
>>> The AT4022 is a little champ. I cannot comment on quieter recording
>>> situations since this was their trial run, but their ruggedness and
>>> resistance to humidity related distortion was epic. Let's see how
>>> time
>>> wears on them.
>>>
>>> As far as the FR2-LE, I also have one of these and would highly
>>> recommend it with one caveat. You cannot record more than 4GB and it
>>> does not record continuously. This means if you are trying to do
>>> recordings of longer durations than say 4 or 5 hours, this unit
>>> is not
>>> for you.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> David
>>>
>>
>>
>>






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