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Re: LS-10 vs 702, ambience

Subject: Re: LS-10 vs 702, ambience
From: "Klas Strandberg" klasstrandberg
Date: Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:16 am ((PDT))
As I said, I am using headphones, and thereby I also get a
phase-stereo,which disappears when using loudspeakers.

It is very difficult to judge about freq. response by crazy designs
like SASS (which is made to be hanging at a wall, b.t.w...) and
Telinga. It's a wonder that they can be of any use at all I would say.
This can be partly explained by the fact that there are so many crazy
echoes and reflections and "errors" out there anyway.  Both designs
would be impossible in a studio.

I had no understanding of the poorer self-noise when the LS-10 preamp
setting is at "high" but I thought I recognized the noise
characteristics as "typical" Telinga noise.
But please have another try!
I have never heard the Telinga noise + LS-10 noise at "high", so...

I still experience the Telinga stereo image as "spacier," (whatever
that means...) as I hear a more "brilliant" atmo (whatever that is).
In the same time you are probably right - the Telinga has a
"notchier" (English??) polar diagram than MKH / SASS which can make a
stereo image both "spacier" and "vague" in the same time.

I don't know if this above is only semantic, but when I first
listened to your file I spontaneously presumed that the first part of
your recording was the MHK, because it sounded so good. The second
part made me think " f-k, does the Telinga really sounds that boring?"

Klas.




At 01:19 2009-08-13, you wrote:
>Hi Klas and all,
>
>I would say that the Telinga stereo image, when used open, is
>somewhat vague in directional information, compared to the SASS (I
>have the advantage of hearing the entire sound clips).
>
>Interesting about the Telinga boost 4-8 kHz, do you mean this applies
>when using a parabola, or open?  The SASS is also supposed to give a
>boost to mid frequencies e.g. birdsong, due to boundary effect.
>
>Re self noise, I don't think I AM hearing Telinga self noise.
>Someone contacted me off-group to query my setting of low sensitivity
>10 (rather than say, high sensitivity 3).  There has been a previous
>discussion on naturerecordists re this.  Using add on mics, including
>the Telinga and a Sennheiser ME66, I find that there is more fizz
>when using high sensitivity.  Note that this applies to add on mics
>and not just the LS-10 inbuilt mics.
>
>I did a test this morning, using a metronome on front verandah rail
>(quiet, rural background), standing back 5 metres, with settings on
>LS 10 at high sens. 2.5 versus low sens. 10.  At these settings the
>ticking levels of the metronome matched exactly.  With both the
>Telinga mic (used open) and the ME66, there was more fizz with the
>high sensitivity setting, and when I later boosted the low sens
>recordings by 6 dB, the fizz level still did not equal the high sens.
>fizz.  Of note is that the ME66 was only slightly more sensitive than
>the Telinga mic (making the Telinga a very sensitive mic), and the
>Telinga has the advantage too of giving a stereo picture.
>
>Vicki
>
>
>
>
>On 12/08/2009, at 7:38 PM, Klas Strandberg wrote:
>
> > Hi Vicky!
> >
> > Thanks, I am surprised that you get that "airy" stereo with the
> > Telinga LS-10! I mean, it is made to be used in a parabola, picking
> > up a center (focus) just as you point out. I made the first versions
> > of them when the birding season in Sweden was almost over with, and I
> > couldn't make any soundscape recordings with it. So thanks again.
> >
> > In fact, listening to the two recordings with head-phones, I find the
> > stereo image from the Telinga more "spacy" (in general) than the SASS.
> > "True" or not I cannot say, as I don't know what it was like in real
> > life, but in theory the Telinga should have some extra db boost of
> > frequencies between 4 and 8 kHz, compared to the MKH.
> >
> > That MKH20 has a lower self noise is obvious and well known.
> > If you prefer the "muffled" sound that you get with SASS, you can
> > equalize the sound from the Telinga a bit and loose some of the
> > self-noise in the process.
> >
> > It is the Telinga self noise you hear, not the preamp noise of the
> > LS-10.
> >
> > Klas.
> >
> >
> > At 04:31 2009-08-11, you wrote:
> >> All,
> >>
> >> Here is another comparison between Olympus LS-10 and Telinga stereo
> >> mic used open, against SD-702 with SASS and mkh 20s.  The subject is
> >> ambience, nothing really close to the mics, with Noisy Miners and Red
> >> Wattlebirds in the distance.  The rigs were set up side by side.
> >>
> >> This sound file can be found on the naturerecordists Files page,
> >> under R for RWB (Red Wattlebird).
> >>
> >> The sound file is of two parts:
> >>
> >> a. LS-10 with Telinga (no low cut, using low sensitivity volume 10)
> >> b. SD-702 with SASS
> >>
> >> Conclusion.  The Telinga and LS-10 did very well noise-wise, and on
> >> the original 10 minute recording some very distant callers picked up
> >> on the Telinga, as well as the SASS.  The SASS was quieter, picked up
> >> the lowest of background noise e.g. distant highway, was more
> >> spacious, had a better and more accurate stereo image.  The Telinga
> >> gave a more central image.
> >>
> >>
> >> Vicki Powys
> >> Australia
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------
> >>
> >> "While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
> >> sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie
> >> Krause
> >> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > Telinga Microphones, Botarbo,
> > S-748 96 Tobo, Sweden.
> > Phone & fax int + 295 310 01
> > email: 
> > website: www.telinga.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > "While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
> > sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie
> > Krause
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>"While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
>sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie Krause
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Telinga Microphones, Botarbo,
S-748 96 Tobo, Sweden.
Phone & fax int + 295 310 01
email: 
website: www.telinga.com









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