At 3:12 PM +0800 7/6/09, D Secomb wrote:
>hi to those in this discussion
>While contemplating the best way to do a test, could some one such as
>Klas do the following in the mean time. A recording with the following:-
>1- A Mic using PIP
>2- the same mic but powered by a battery box with the PIP turned off.
Hi David--
You may have already noticed that Klas posted his test on the LS-10
yesterday and there's no noise introduced by the LS-10's PIP circuit.
>
>By listening to these side by side , one may able the judge if there is
>an audio difference. True, it isn't a definitive test, it may give a
>feel if and how PIP is going to impact on our recordings.
>
>Dan. Would the Sony DCM D50 (126 dBu) also could be a good match for the
>EM 23.
Yes, smaller, negative EIN numbers (e.g. -126 dBu) are indicative of
recorders with lower (better) noise performance. I'm quite certain
you would encounter no additional noise using PIP on this Sony unit
or the older Hi-MD recorders.
>Concerning noisier mics with 22dB that use PIP. Correct me if I'm
>wrong,could there be a noise issue when using some of the noisier
>recorders such as Zoom, especially if there is a noticeable increase in LF=
?
Very unlikely. The self-noise from these mics is likely to mask any
noise contributed by the PIP circuit. Further, if using a lower noise
PIP mic with some units like the H2, the PIP can be turned off and a
battery supply for the mic can be used.
We don't have an input noise measurement for the H2 yet to the best
of my knowledge, just verbal descriptions. Rob D.
>
>David
>
>Rob Danielson wrote:
>>
>>
>> >
>> >Hi Klas,
>> >
>> >...
>> >However, I guess that this increased PIP noise is not relevant when
>> >using a typical PIP microphone, which itself usually also exhibits a
>> >higher inherent noise level that probably masks this current
>> >generator noise. This would most likely also apply for your quieter
>> >Telinga PIP mics as long as they provide a sufficiently high
>> >absolute output level.
>> >
>> >In any case, it would be safe to switch off the PIP voltage option
>> >when using self-powered microphones such as the Sennheiser K6/ME6x
>> >series models for instance.
>> >
>> >Regards,
>> >Raimund
>>
>> I'm trying to think of the practical implications even before we do
>> testing,..
>>
>> As Raimund says:
>> 1) Switch off the PIP if your recorder has this option and you can
>> power your mics with an internal such as the ME-10's, but note,..
>>
>> 2) For the majority of PIP mics whose self-noise is 22dB(A)or
>> greater, any generated PIP noise is not likely to be audible. Any
>> noise generated by the PIP circuits is not likely to be an issue with
>> these noisier mics.
>>
>> 3) Those folks who are looking at recorders to use with Klas's EM-23
>> mics (~14dB[A] self-noise) should invest in a recorder that has input
>> noise of -122 dBu or less. The LS-10 is the only recorder at this
>> point that might be on the borderline and it does have switch-able
>> PIP so using a battery box is an option.
>>
>> For practical purposes though, the EM23's are the only mics I can
>> think of that one can use to test whether the PIP in the LS-10
>> generates noise. Luckily, Klas has both. :-) Rob D.
>>
>> --
>>
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