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Re: Quietest Mic / Pre

Subject: Re: Quietest Mic / Pre
From: "Charles Deenen (home)" <>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 12:01:38 -0700


> From: Walter Knapp <>
>
>
> Charles Deenen (home) wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi walter.
>> >
>> > I have the MP2 and Mixpre, both of which I don=B9t find quiet enough. =
 I=B9m
>> > also looking for mics that are quieter than the MKH series. Even thoug=
h
>> > their selfnoise is very low, it=B9s not low enough (yet).   It always =
bugs me
>> > that I have to EQ-out hiss on quiet recordings.  Has anybody tried the=
 new
>> > Neumann Digital output mic for quietness ?
>
> You are approaching the area with these mics that the "self noise" is a
> large part the air molecules hitting the diaphragm. That pretty much
> defines the lower limit of self noise that can made.
>
> Have you looked at the rest of your system? The mic and pre are not the
> only thing that can produce hiss. Even your software you use to process
> sound can produce some, especially with some filters.
>
> That=B9s not the problem. Filters used are FFT based Sony EQ=B9s.
> -cd
>
>
>
> The Neumann D-01 is rated by Neumann at 7dBA. It's sensitivity is very
> low compared to the MKH mics, so you would need more gain with it,
> making the self noise probably higher than the MKH in the recording.
> Digital does not mean less self noise necessarily, the mic is still a
> analog device, all they did was combine it with pre and A/D. It's not a
> magic word.
>
> Well aware of this :)   But the earlier the A/D is done with having to go
> through a pre-amp to amplify will surely help.
> -cd
>
>
>
>> > For example, have you ever recorded on the top of the volcano=B9s in  =
Maui ?
>> > If so, it has an almost eerie quitness too it, so you only hear very s=
ubtle
>> > rustling etc.  Self-noise is a big issue during those times.
>
> I've been there, but not recorded there. Back in the 50's.
>
> You might want to get your hands on a sound meter that can measure at
> these low levels and do a reality check. 10dB is extremely quiet. It is,
> in fact, below what most folks can hear at most frequencies. It's not at
> all common out in the environment. From what I remember of the Maui
> volcanos it would be well above 10dB. 20dB or above, depending on the
> strength of the breeze. With my sound meter, the quietest I have
> measured in Georgia was late at night on windless nights. And that was
> in the 20-30dBA range.
>
> You need to work out how much of what you are removing is actually
> environment. In Hawaii with it's near year round tradewinds there is a
> constant background hiss from the breeze through the vegetation. I
> suggested recently putting your mics under a bunch of pillows in a quiet
> room and recording to find out just what your self noise is. Have you
> tried that?
>
> Yep, have tried that. That=B9s how I noticed that the self noise was the =
big
> issue.  It=B9s easy to tell the difference in noise-quality of self-noise=
 and
> environment noise.  Just looking to see if anybody knew of mics that were
> quieter (both omni=B9s and short/long shotgun). We=B9re about to do a big=
 ambience
> shoot again, which is why it would be nice not to have to filter as much
> afterwards. I=B9ve also tried very sensitive mics, but the wind-rumble (e=
ven
> with massive zep=B9s and wind-screens) became the big issue then. I don=
=B9t think
> there is a way to win the noise-war :)
> -cd
>
>
>
> Walt
> 
>



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